Wow... they were owned...

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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:17 pm

I-mon wrote:that's good to hear, Doc.

IMO rastafarianism with Selassie (named Ras Tafari Makonnen at birth before his coronation) as the central figure was created out of something much older, and much more interesting in terms of practical spirituality - the tradition of the "bush doctor" with the emphasis on "roots and culture" as a way of understanding and putting modern society in a greater perspective.

Anyway, just putting it up there as another example of a cult of personality based around a guy who never asked for it, yet followed religiously as god in human form by thousands of followers.

As you probably know Doc, in the Indian philosophical traditions it is well understood that the Absolute Reality must be beyond name and form and beyond mind and matter and thus beyond conception for ordinary human states of consciouness, but even though the truth is beyond conception it is still possible and extremely beneficial to worship in whatever way is most appropriate to the individual. For most ordinary people it is perhaps easiest to evoke and then direct this feeling of divinity and worship towards something with a name and a form and various divine qualities, hence the multitude of gods within the Indian pantheon. For others it is easiest or more appropriate to worship god in human form, as an Avatar or perfect human being like Rama or Krishna. Some choose to worship the absolute reality as pure consciouness and call it Shiva, others worship the active dynamic force behind all activity and transformation in the universe and call it Shakti, and then some few try to go beyond all the names and forms.

The point of all of this is not the idea that any one of them is correct or true - the point is the feeling evoked and the mental act of worship itself - the praise of the immensity and magnificence of the one great eternal Absolute, packaged in whatever way that the individual human mind can effectively grasp.


I have read that there was a greek church dedicated to the "unknown God" or something like that. The greeks as I understand it didn't completely dismiss the idea of a all powerful diety but didn't believe that if such a thing existed that it would care about anything mortals would care about. So the more earthly deities were worshiped. Just putting it out there as another point of view that some people may have had. I have heard some people say something similar about the typical conception of God as all powerful and all knowing creator, that he is so beyond mortality that he couldn't possibly care about us.
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby I-mon on Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:50 pm

There was a lot of contact between India and Greece around 2000 years ago, so many similar ideas are bound to crop up, not just in those two countries but all over the whole region of what we call the "ancient world".

In the Indian traditions again, the worship of God out of the desire for worldly assistance is certainly there and can often seem to be the religious habit of the majority, but it is considered a low-level understanding, suitable only for those who don't have the time, temperament or inclination for serious philosophical study or meditative practice. The goal is always to conceive (for the philosopher) or actually experience (for the yogi) as much of the entirety of the Absolute as is possible in any moment, and to maintain and increase this practice from moment to moment.
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby Chris Fleming on Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:10 pm

DeusTrismegistus wrote:
I-mon wrote:that's good to hear, Doc.

IMO rastafarianism with Selassie (named Ras Tafari Makonnen at birth before his coronation) as the central figure was created out of something much older, and much more interesting in terms of practical spirituality - the tradition of the "bush doctor" with the emphasis on "roots and culture" as a way of understanding and putting modern society in a greater perspective.

Anyway, just putting it up there as another example of a cult of personality based around a guy who never asked for it, yet followed religiously as god in human form by thousands of followers.

As you probably know Doc, in the Indian philosophical traditions it is well understood that the Absolute Reality must be beyond name and form and beyond mind and matter and thus beyond conception for ordinary human states of consciouness, but even though the truth is beyond conception it is still possible and extremely beneficial to worship in whatever way is most appropriate to the individual. For most ordinary people it is perhaps easiest to evoke and then direct this feeling of divinity and worship towards something with a name and a form and various divine qualities, hence the multitude of gods within the Indian pantheon. For others it is easiest or more appropriate to worship god in human form, as an Avatar or perfect human being like Rama or Krishna. Some choose to worship the absolute reality as pure consciouness and call it Shiva, others worship the active dynamic force behind all activity and transformation in the universe and call it Shakti, and then some few try to go beyond all the names and forms.

The point of all of this is not the idea that any one of them is correct or true - the point is the feeling evoked and the mental act of worship itself - the praise of the immensity and magnificence of the one great eternal Absolute, packaged in whatever way that the individual human mind can effectively grasp.


I have read that there was a greek church dedicated to the "unknown God" or something like that. The greeks as I understand it didn't completely dismiss the idea of a all powerful diety but didn't believe that if such a thing existed that it would care about anything mortals would care about. So the more earthly deities were worshiped. Just putting it out there as another point of view that some people may have had. I have heard some people say something similar about the typical conception of God as all powerful and all knowing creator, that he is so beyond mortality that he couldn't possibly care about us.



To my understanding, this wasn't a "church" per say but a shrine of sorts. There were many places of worship in Rome with many different "deities" represented. In the book of Acts, this is what Paul noticed and spoke about this to those who were in the market square. He used the reference of the "unknown God" to tell the Romans who this unknown God was, the God who has revealed Himself and is now knowable by all men.
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby nianfong on Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:00 am

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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby edededed on Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:22 am

Wow, Doc, I do like the Eastern Orthodox Church more the more I hear about it! Sure wish my parents joined that church (and not the horrible Korean Presbyterian Church of America, which is the worst of the bunch in my experience, but they will never leave it)! It is also a shame that Eastern Orthodox churches seem to be a rarity in the USA (at least I have never seen one)...
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby cerebus on Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:59 am

"Kewl froot. I can has?" "EPIC FAIL! GTFO!" ROFLMAO!! :D :D
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby Methods on Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:22 pm

Lotz of Eastern Orthodox churches, from the outside they always look plain but they are absolutely beautiful in the inside.
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby Michael on Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:04 pm

If you live in a big city like L.A., you can surely find them in Eastern European ethnic neighborhoods, like Armenian areas.
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby Doc Stier on Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:45 pm

Methods wrote:Lotz of Eastern Orthodox churches, from the outside they always look plain but they are absolutely beautiful in the inside.

Indeed. Quite so. Here are some examples:

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby Chris Fleming on Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:12 pm

I always enjoyed the singing/chanting of the Orthodox church immensely. Something about the vibration of it really hits me and of course, what is being communicated. A very real sense of the divine mystery, and joy with a quiet strength. Something which I find a lot of other groups are missing.

One of my favorites from youtube:

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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby meeks on Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:44 pm

Haven't you ever heard about conversion sex?

I've had conversation sex lots during my lifetime....

fuck you!
no, fuck you!
fuck...you...!
"The power of Christ compels you!" *spank*
now with ADDED SMOOTHOSITY! ;D
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby Doc Stier on Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:05 pm

Nice find, Chris! 8-)

Here are other Eastern Orthodox chant examples representing the three major styles in the order of their historical development:


Syriac Chant in Aramaic by Abun Deyroyo Samuel Issa


Byzantine Chant in Greek by Theodoros Vasilikos


Russian Chant in Slavonic by the Monks of Valaam Monastery
Last edited by Doc Stier on Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby Ian on Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:27 am

Ian

 

Re: Wow... they were owned...

Postby cerebus on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:51 am

ROFLMAO!!!
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