Ayn Rand - are you kidding me

[yusuf]

Hey

I was told that someone called Ayn Rand was a great thinker, philospher blah blah.. SO i purchase some of her work.. wtf??? ..do conservatives actually follow this nazism? .. having googled more I found this review which sort of sums up what i feel...

"Something of this implication is fixed in the book's dictatorial tone, which is much its most striking feature. Out of a lifetime of reading, I can recall no other book in which a tone of overriding arrogance was so implacably sustained. Its shrillness is without reprieve. Its dogmatism is without appeal. In addition, the mind, which finds this one natural to it, shares other characteristics of its type. 1) It consistently mistakes raw force for strength, and the rawer the force, the more reverent the posture of the mind before it. 2) It supposes itself to be the bringer of a final revelation. Therefore, resistance to the Message cannot be tolerated because disagreement can never be merely honest, prudent or just humanly fallible. Dissent from revelation so final (because, the author would say, so reasonable) can only be willfully wicked. There are ways of dealing with such wickedness, and, in fact, right reason itself enjoins them. From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: " To the gas chambers — go!""


unbelievable that the right wing seem to idolise this nutter.. and i can see aperfect reflection of islamic fundamentalism in this way of thinking

ysuuf

[Darth Rock&Roll]

why do you think objectivity is right wing?

Philosophically, it is active nihilism in many senses, which is in my opinion the factual and correct view of the objective reality outside of our own projections upon it which include arbitrary mental constructs and religio-philosophies.

You can accept what's in a bible or in the quran, but you can't accept that there is an objective reality whole and apart from yourself and what you choose to project upon it?

Did you read the piece in it's entirety or were you taken back early on by the harsh light of day which her thoughts reveal to us as the actual reality in which we exist?

What Ayn Rand does is attempt to shake us from our passive and idiotic outlooks and shake us into understanding that there is a whole world out there and without acting to make it better, we are each and everyone meaningless.

At least that's what I get from Rand and I don't consider myself right wing or conservative in the least.

I can say this though, If at 20 you are not liberal minded, you are heartless. If at 40 you are not conservative minded, you are an idiot. The phrase in and of itself outlines how time and experience changes us each and how constructs will fit to you as you pass through space and time. It is in our best interests to first adhere to our humanity and everything else comes after.

[Interloper]

When we were kids we snuck a look at her stuff at the library because we heard there's WICKED DIRTY SEX in it. But that turned out to be a disappointment.

[yusuf]

i did read the whole of atlas shrugged but i find her work to be very disjointed, preachy and almost opposing itself in the way logic falls apart in so many places.... i do think the logical conclusion of her work is anarchy.. but think i will read some of her other stuff to make sure i am understanding the shit she is shovelling...

..oh an no sex either

[Bär]

Darth's right, but she's got quite a few fans who see only the superficial "greed is good/i me mine" message in her mostly craptastic works.

[yeniseri]

I like Ayn Rand. Since my university days, she was a positive force in individual ambition but over time, I found that one cannot force that kind of 'neo-nihilistic' attitude upon the masses. The masses need their opium so they must have it, whether one agrees or not but let them choose thei preferred narcotic. On analysis of her work, there was no leisure, no compassion, no lollygaging but just a political view similar to Marxist jargon wrapped in capitalistic tones. It is how her work is propositioned in 'rightwing' verbage that is the problem and she is used in the same vein as her Marxist propaganda to cajole the ignorant and appease the lumpenprotelariat.

I give an example: Would Ayn Rand do this? p.s. I do not believe most of those labelled right wing know who she is but she is getting the press!
Here goes: TSA is lacking a head but there is a republican who is holding up the nomination for the TSA head because he fears that said TSA leader will unionize TSA workers. Would Ayn Rand do that? And would this republican's choice indicate his problem or his refusal to accept his own mandate?
a, based on the information, Republicans fear unionization of TSA more than they fear terrorism!
b, How can that be? the republican mandate is that terrorism is a threat to America. So why not be true to one's ideals, if that is what you claim
c, that means fear of unions is the true republican problem!
d. what does family values have to do with TSA nomination!

I think Ayn Rand is a scapegoat to deceive and hoodwink those most gullible due to the divergence of false truths and innuendos
Nuts and scumbags to the right tof me. and clueless on the left! and never the two shall tweet!

[Steve James]

Rand isn't taken seriously as a philosopher by professional philosophers. She had a philosophy, just as anyone does. The "quality" of her quasi-philosophical work is what's criticized. Now, some of her ideas have been adopted because they confirm the ideology of individualism as opposed to communalism or socialism, which were some of the serious political alternatives/enemies being offered at the time she was writing. So, she easily fits into the right v. left dialog.

Anyway, if you're privileged or believe that you have something to lose, then it's easy (natural) to be conservative. If you feel disenfranchised (in whatever system), then it's more likely that you'll see life differently, but you won't necessarily be liberal. You'll just wish you could be conservative, if you're hopeful. Otoh, if you have something to lose, but you give some away anyway, then you're a humanitarian --but not necessarily a liberal. When you want to give away what you haven't got, then you're liberal. They're the ones conservatives fear the most; the ones who they're afraid want to give away "their" (whatever) money .

[Chris Fleming]

I liked Atlas Shrugged quite a bit in what it had to say about business and the free market as opposed to the socialism that was attempted in that storyline. Much like today, real business is either being usurped by greedy banks or nationalized by the government in every real way except officially or completely derailed by socialist ideas which demand that businesses operate at a loss and still provide services. As John Galt said, when it was demanded of him to fix the economy, "Get the hell out of my way!"

[Teazer]

unbelievable that the right wing seem to idolise this nutter.. and i can see aperfect reflection of islamic fundamentalism in this way of thinking

IMO it's a badly written diatribe based on one dimensional characters and strawman pseudo arguments that is totally devoid of subtlety and has limited practical relevance. That people use it as inspiration to go out and be all they can be is fine, just so long as they don't expect the rest of her fantasy world to come true.

I figure I'll also just cut & paste in what I wrote in the last thread.... http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3094&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=ayn+rand

"It's interesting when you look at the (main) sociological prescriptions in contrast to where they evolved.

Marx was writing about the problems of an oppressive absolute monarchy which was unconstrained by a strong government, and so advocated a strong government to represent the dispersed population.

The founders of the US were rebelling against an overly powerful government, in a country with a relatively strong legal system so advocated a system which limited the ability of government to coordinate against the will of the people, and supported that with strong legal rights so minorities would not be oppressed by majorities.

Rand was rebelling against the totalitarian post revolution Russia where there was an overly powerful government with little legal defense for minorities and forced distribution of wealth. From that perspective she could see few advantages of government so advocated its minimization. However the result of that in Russia, without a strong system of rights and law for the people would more likely end up with some form of unbounded oligarchy rather than with something more generally pleasant to live in."

[Buddy]

"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."
Ayn Rand

[yeniseri]

"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."
Ayn Rand

Individual quotes like that should be the mantra of being but this is the exact opposite of any American ideology in the past, present or the future!
If I take the republican view of abortion and apply this to Ayn Rand's above statement, there is no worse disconnect than this.
One may be saddened by the course of action of individuals but it is their choice, and they are no less a friend or a citizen.

Let individual make choices and suffer the consequences thereof!

[chud]

I liked her first book, The Fountainhead, much better than Atlas Shrugged. Atlas Shrugged was a little too repetitive.

[yusuf]

"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."
Ayn Rand

the problem is how does that work if everyone adopts it?.. or only a very few do who have no limt to their hubris?

[affa]

AynRand:Nietzsche::MötleyCrüe:Wagner

[edededed]

Anyway, if you're privileged or believe that you have something to lose, then it's easy (natural) to be conservative. If you feel disenfranchised (in whatever system), then it's more likely that you'll see life differently, but you won't necessarily be liberal. You'll just wish you could be conservative, if you're hopeful. Otoh, if you have something to lose, but you give some away anyway, then you're a humanitarian --but not necessarily a liberal. When you want to give away what you haven't got, then you're liberal. They're the ones conservatives fear the most; the ones who they're afraid want to give away "their" (whatever) money .

Wow, I think that is a wonderful synopsis! I guess that being humanitariam is the best...