Wrestling with my Demons

[GrahamB]

Excellent post.

08 Jan 2010 15:56 Artie Lange, sidekick of the U.S. shock jock Howard Stern, has survived a suicide attempt. This consisted of six "hesitation wounds" and three deep plunges. Stern was quoted demanding that the press back off because "everyone has their demons, including myself, but he's wrestling with some serious stuff".

Apart from noting that The Hesitation Wounds is a great name for an indie band, I can't help musing about the phrase "wrestling with their demons". This seems to be exclusively applied to anyone going through a high-profile personal crisis despite being wealthier and more famous than the rest of us. When a father murdered his family on a housing estate over Christmas nobody said he was wrestling with his demons. Wrestling with demons, which seems an activity reserved for showbiz or sport, somehow dignifies all manner of outrages and carries the hint that demonic behaviour may be an inevitable side effect of genius.

It's odd that an expression like this, which derives from an era when demonic possession was a widely-held belief, should be pressed into use to explain excesses in such a Godless milieu.

http://whatsheonaboutnow.blogspot.com/2 ... devil.html

[Interloper]

Wonder whether "wrestling with demons" is a reworking of the biblical story of the Hebrew patriarch Ya'akov (Jacob) wrestling with "an angel of God" (interpreted by many scholars as wrestling with God metaphorically -- i.e. struggling/wrestling with his faith). Having survived the ordeal and confirmed his faith, Ya'akov's name thereafter was Yisrael (Israel) -- "He wrestled/grappled/struggled with God" and he went on to profess and continue the Jewish faith.

Demons were part of the oral folklore of Semitic peoples including the Jews, but AFAIK (Omar likely knows for certain) there is no such reference in the scriptures/Tanakh. Over time, wrestling with a divine being, whether literally or figuratively, might have switched over to something more universally experienced (since, in the written record, only Jacob had the hands-on experience ), namely, demons.

The metaphor is apt here, as Artie Lange apparently is also struggling with powerful emotional matters, whether of religious faith or faith in himself.

[Doc Stier]

Interesting questions and perspectives to be sure.

I oftentimes wonder, however, whether people employ this idea of wrestling with inner demons to dodge personal responsibility for their thoughts and actions, either deliberately or inadvertently, to essentially claim that "the devil made me do it", or "it was as if I was possessed by a negative spiritual entity that wrestled control of my thoughts and actions".

Not to say that such a phenomenon couldn't ever happen to anyone, but merely that it seems unlikely that such would be the case in most instances. And in any event, such a phenomenon could only occur if such an entity were allowed entrance into consciousness in some way through concentrated fear or desire. In this way, each of us can potentially become saturated with negatively driven energy which eventually manifests itself in a negative manner, both inwardly and outwardly.

As such, it may feel as if these manifestations are generated solely form external agencies, when in fact they are self-fulfilling prophecies proving that what we see inwardly is what we get outwardly.

[Felipe Bidó]

Over time, wrestling with a divine being, whether literally or figuratively, might have switched over to something more universally experienced (since, in the written record, only Jacob had the hands-on experience

God grabbed Moses on his way to Egypt and almost killed him. Seems that Moses didn't have the fighting skills to defend himself. Her wife had to intervene and throw a foreskin at God and he let Moses go...

I bet that after that Moses got mocked by his buddies: "LOL, your woman had to help you, sissy!".

[qiphlow]

where the hell did the wife get the foreskin? from moses? or was it common for women to carry a foreskin around with them in those days? maybe it served as a kleenex or something before it became the god-stopper...

[Felipe Bidó]

From Gershom, their kid.

[Josealb]

"Rear naked choke Mo Bitch...brake ma tablets will you..ill show you how to....EEEEEEEWWW WTF WOMAN!?!?"

[Interloper]

Over time, wrestling with a divine being, whether literally or figuratively, might have switched over to something more universally experienced (since, in the written record, only Jacob had the hands-on experience

God grabbed Moses on his way to Egypt and almost killed him. Seems that Moses didn't have the fighting skills to defend himself. Her wife had to intervene and throw a foreskin at God and he let Moses go...

I bet that after that Moses got mocked by his buddies: "LOL, your woman had to help you, sissy!".

The foreskin of an 8-day-old (which is when Jewish boy-infants are circumcized) is about the size of a tiny sliver of your pinky fingernail. I guess it was more a psychological shock to the Almighty than a physical one!

[qiphlow]

From Gershom, their kid.

ok, that's just creepy.

[fuga]

"Rear naked choke Mo Bitch...brake ma tablets will you..ill show you how to....EEEEEEEWWW WTF WOMAN!?!?"

[Dmitri]

That was too damn funny Jose.

[cerebus]

"Rear naked choke Mo Bitch...brake ma tablets will you..ill show you how to....EEEEEEEWWW WTF WOMAN!?!?"

ROFLMAO!!!

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Best derailment evah!!!

[nianfong]

Gershom similar to Graham....
coincidence? I think not.

[bailewen]

Demons were part of the oral folklore of Semitic peoples including the Jews, but AFAIK (Omar likely knows for certain) there is no such reference in the scriptures/Tanakh. Over time, wrestling with a divine being, whether literally or figuratively, might have switched over to something more universally experienced (since, in the written record, only Jacob had the hands-on experience ), namely, demons.

[old jewish man voice]So now I'm a scholar? meh....I should be so lucky...[/old jewish man voice]

It's not like I even know what a yeshivah looks like. I just like to read is all. I just did a little googling around because while I don't remember ever seeing any demon references in the Torah, I can't speak to the Talmud or even the Zohar which I have only read a tiny bit of. The Tanya ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanya ) certainly expresses nearly the same metaphor. I haven't read demon references but it says that God placed "the good impulse" and "the evil impulse" in us and they both wage ware on the city that is our heart. The evil impulse is said to be strong but never so strong that it can not be beaten. The greater the impulse to do evil, the greater the merit in overcoming it.

Considering that the Hassids are known today for their incredible scholarship and extreme orthodoxy, it's kind of ironic that Hassidisim was originally a populist movement with the central message being that passionate love of god and desire to be a good man was more important that scholarly knowledge and ability to carry out the letter of the law. They carried a message that one who had to fight to do right was bringing more heavenly glory into the world than for whom it came naturally. This is, incidentally, why man was placed above the angels in the hierarchy of creation and, according to some traditions, why Satan fell, he refused to bow down to man.

I found a couple of demon references online in the Talmud and supposedly in the Zohar but they do seem more implied than literal. Even Satan is considered to be an angel not a "demon" and his name is not a name at all but a title. In Jewish translations he is called "The Adversary". In the original Hebrew just as "Adam" is actually "The Adam", "Satan" also gets the definite article and is called "The Satan" indicating that he has a specific role. In that sense, I would say that the idea of inner demons has some biblical precedence. It's just not spelled out. It's there by implication like in the Jacob and the angel story.

At the end of the day, my opinion is that a demon is just a certain category of angel.