Haiti and Pat Robertson

[KEND]

A recent article on the Haiti tragedy caught my eye. My thought on this is, do I live on the same planet as these people. The reactions to Robertsons comments seem to focus on what God was doing rather than on the overall stupidity of the comments.Its an effing earthquake, they occur when masses of rock grind against each other, they are to some extent predictable, for example California sooner or later will have an 8+ earthquake. To ascribe this to a supernatural power puts us back in the dark ages, Newton, Darwin, Einstein become dwarves on the stage of human endeavor.
For some reason the Peter Cook monologue comes to mind:

The End of the World
From the revue that really launched the 'satire' boom, the 1961 Beyond The Fringe. The cast: Peter Cook, Jonathan Miller, Dudley Moore and Alan Bennett. They are seated, huddled, on the top of a mountain...
Jon : How will it be, this end of which you have spoken, Brother Enim?
Omnes: Yes, how will it be?
Peter : Well, it will be, as 'twere a mighty rending in the sky, you see, and the mountains shall sink, you see, and the valleys shall rise, you see, and great shall be the tumult thereof.
Jon : Will the veil of the temple be rent in twain?
Peter : The veil of the temple will be rent in twain about two minutes before we see the sign of the manifest flying beast-head in the sky.
Alan : And will there be a mighty wind, Brother Enim?
Peter : Certainly there will be a mighty wind, if the word of God is anything to go by...
Dudley : And will this wind be so mighty as to lay low the mountains of the earth?
Peter : No - it will not be quite as mighty as that - that is why we have come up on the mountain, you stupid nit - to be safe from it. Up here on the mountain we shall be safe - safe as houses.

Now to the article

Inside Politics Daily
Haiti and the Pat Robertson Paradox
Jeffrey Weiss
Posted:
01/21/10

Here's the Pat Robertson paradox: Maybe the overwhelming condemnation of his comments about Haiti following the earthquake is evidence of how much religion continues to matter to many Americans.
In case you missed it, Robertson said this on the 700 Club:
"Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, 'We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.' True story. And so, the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.'
"And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other. Desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It's cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have -- and we need to pray for them -- a great turning to God. And out of this tragedy, I'm optimistic something good may come. But right now, we're helping the suffering people, and the suffering is unimaginable."
Let's leave aside questions about the veracity of the story -- and there are many. (For instance: Did anything like what Robertson describes actually happen? If it did, was the ceremony dedicated to the deities of the traditional Haitian religion, not Christianity's devil?)
I was intrigued by the broad wave of American voices raised in opposition to Robertson. When the secular, Jewish Jon Stewart tosses out a series of Bible verses to express his dismay, something interesting is going on.
Yes, Robertson is an easy punching bag. But after several years of surveys that indicate that the tenets and dogmas of Christianity are less central to American culture than they once were, maybe the reaction to Robertson shows that "less" is a long way from "gone."

Here's a sample of some of the reaction just from Baptist voices, to pull from one piece of the spectrum:
"God is ultimately responsible for the earthquake in Haiti and has a reason that is beyond our ability, trapped in time, to understand or comprehend. But it would be theological ignorance coupled with absolute arrogance to try and interpret God's actions as a judgment against a particular person or nation." -- Dr. Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church of Dallas, for Newsweek.
"Nevertheless, one thing I do know: The Christianity of Robertson and those who are quick to blame tragedy on some angry, vengeful God is a Christianity which I, following Hatuey's lead, reject and want no part of whatsoever." -- Miguel A. De La Torre, director of the Justice & Peace Institute and associate professor of social ethics at Iliff School of Theology in Denver, for the website EthicsDaily.com.
"The alleged 1791 Haitian pact with the devil would put our Father on the side of slavery and Satan on the side of those seeking freedom. The reverse is actually the case. Satan is a "murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44), a thief who "comes only to steal and kill and destroy" (John 10:10) and seeks to make us "slaves to sin" (Rom. 6:17). Satan enslaves. God liberates." -- Jim Denison, president of the Center for Informed Faith and theologian-in-residence for the Baptist General Convention of Texas, from the first of three special opinion pieces about this topic he's writing for the Associated Baptist Press.
And now to the pop cultural side of the response, and Stewart on The Daily Show:
"Out of all the things you could draw on from your religion to bring comfort to a devastated people and region? Look how big your book is! 'The Lord is close to the broken hearted. He rescues those who are crushed in spirit. Fear thou not, for I am with thee. Be not dismayed, for I am thy God. I will strengthen thee. From the depths of the earth you will again bring me up. Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed, says the Lord who has compassion on you.'
"That almost sounds like it's about a f**** earthquake!"

For those of you keeping score at home, Stewart used verses from Isaiah 51 and 54 and Psalms 34 and 71.

And finally, a nugget from one of the wittiest letters to the editor I've ever seen, signed by Lily Coyle in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. In the tradition of the Screwtape Letters, this is from Satan to Robertson:

"I may be evil incarnate, but I'm no welcher. The way you put it, making a deal with me leaves folks desperate and impoverished. Sure, in the afterlife, but when I strike bargains with people, they first get something here on earth -- glamour, beauty, talent, wealth, fame, glory, a golden fiddle. Those Haitians have nothing, and I mean nothing. And that was before the earthquake. Haven't you seen "Crossroads"? Or "Damn Yankees"?

People only get outraged about something they care about. What's this outrage about? Part of it seems to be from folks who are upset that Robertson is profoundly mischaracterizing their concept of Christianity. Whether or not, as in the case of Stewart, they even believe in that religion.

I asked for analysis from John Green, director of the University of Akron's Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics -- not to mention one of the nation's premiere analysts of surveys concerning faith and politics:
"Many people value religion and feel compelled to 'set the record straight' when Robertson speaks this way. This does strongly suggest that religion is a very important thing to many Americans. The Pew data certainly support this view: the importance of religion remains high even as American religion changes as regard to the specifics. In the case of Haiti, much of the relief effort is religiously inspired and conducted by religious people -- precisely because their faith instructs them to do. Defending faith in general as a legitimate enterprise is crucial to many people."

" "

[cerebus]

Just my opinion, but Pat Robertson's a dink...

[Bill]

I thought protestants were guided by the holy spirit in their interpretation of scripture. How could he be wrong?

[Dmitri]

Wow, turns out I can't stand even seeing his name in writing, because it brings up his mug and creepy little voice that ate into my brain from that brief incidental exposure when surfing through channels once... Yuck. Rarely someone's physical persona (and of course all that's behind it) brings about that much disgust in me. I think that, by category, TV preachers and similar creatures top that list for me.

[Ben]

Dude, Whenever I see anything that has to do with Pat Robertson I run the other way. The man is...well... I don't really know how to describe him.

[cerebus]

Dude, Whenever I see anything that has to do with Pat Robertson I run the other way. The man is...well... I don't really know how to describe him.

Heh, heh. Not me. When I see him, I step on the gas pedal...

[Steve James]

I don't think people condemn what Robertson said because they're religious or because of their religions. I think that most thinking people find his comments stupid, untrue and --at best-- inappropriately offered at precisely the wrong time. The fact that he is a televangelist just means that we find out what he said more quickly. But, he's playing to an audience, many of whom look to him for guidance and to explain what happens in the world. Anyway, I'd bet there was a branch of his church down in Haiti, even before the earthquake. However, they're usually there to evangelize. Maybe not his, but several religious ngos in Haiti require people to attend their denominational services in order to get aid. That's like the old Salvation Army soup kitchens ... I don't know if it's still the case today.

[internalenthusiast]

it wouldn't surprise me that those who consider themselves religious, and disagree with robertson in terms of their understanding of their faith...well... disagree in terms of their faith. kind of a tautology...and that's not to devalue their statements. i would do the same, if i believed what they do. i have relatives who consider themselves "religious" who disagree with him, on the basis of their understanding of their particular faith. luckily, i don't have close relatives who support him, in the name of "religion or faith."

others might disagree on other terms: e.g., what they perceive as prejudice inherent in mr. robertson's statements. i.e.: the inability to see human beings as inherently equal, and his pursuit of a situation where some people(s) are devalued, according to his interests. whether his interests are admitted or not. i don't think they are.

in either case, the objection might come from a sense that mr. robertson advocates things which seem "wrong", whether from a perspective of "belief, religion or faith", or a more "humanistic" perspective.

but yes, i find myself personally more in the second camp. in this way, i think i'm closer to your perspective. though i know others who would disagree with him from the first perspective, and i'm glad they do.

i've never been able to buy into the "god is on our side" argument, even though i have strong opinions about what is right, and what is not. it's hard for me to have a particular, coded, "religion" precisely because my own intuitive belief that humans are inherently equal, makes me cautious.

yeah, i think it's an f'ing earthquake, and these people need help. any other perspective seems to me obscene.

my very best to you, kenneth...

[cerebus]

yeah, i think it's an f'ing earthquake, and these people need help. any other perspective seems to me obscene.

This....

[internalenthusiast]

thanks cerebus...

that is indeed my bottom line belief...

best...

[cerebus]

I think people like Pat Robertson need to realize that there's a time for debating theology and there's a time to simply be a decent human being and help those in need. Preach at them when they're safe, fed and housed if you must, but until then just help them...

[internalenthusiast]

decent human being...

that's key IMO...and helping those in need, is a huge part of that, IMO...

thanks...

[Ian]

My thought on this is, do I live on the same planet as these people.

I find it an immense pity... how unevolved we all are.