Supreme Court decision on punishment for Child Rape

[Ian]

if one of my children was raped, most probably i'd be enraged and go and beat the living shit out of the rapist until i was too exhausted to move. but however satisfying that may be, it doesn't undo the act, and it doesn't make the kid feel any better, and it only makes the parent feel better temporarily. i suppose we as a society have to find a happy medium between our sense of compassion and our sense of revenge.

Moreso responsibility than revenge. If a murderer/rapist is dead then they can't harm any more people ever again.

Um... they can't harm children if they're serving a life sentence, either.

[Muad'dib]

Steve, I've had an unfortunate chance to read more supreme court decisions than I really ever cared to, and more court cases as well. If you truly think the law is not emotional, you are kidding yourself. If you don't believe me, just read the Japanese internment case from the 80's. In this case the emotion that the Supreme Court is drawing on is a general abhorrence for the use of the death penalty outside of limited circumstance. It's pretty obvious by the vote split. Scalia, who was one of the dissenters, has 9 children.

As for the rest, I am not arguing any side. Jus that the facts people are using to support their reasoning are drawn from their subjective desires, rather than an objective and rational response.

[klonk]

Concur with the point that the law is not always rational. It can be influenced by zeitgeist, and when further twisted to meet or avoid stare it can look pretty bizarre. The danger is the apperance that judges are making the law up as they go along, and making it say what they want.

Edit: No, wait, I was wrong. The danger is not so much in the appearance as the fact.

[klonk]

if one of my children was raped, most probably i'd be enraged and go and beat the living shit out of the rapist until i was too exhausted to move. but however satisfying that may be, it doesn't undo the act, and it doesn't make the kid feel any better, and it only makes the parent feel better temporarily. i suppose we as a society have to find a happy medium between our sense of compassion and our sense of revenge.

At the time the Constitution was approved by the people, public hanging was not "cruel and unusual." The tax rate was minuscule. Now you pay high taxes, and you can't get the government to perform even simple services.

[Dmitri]

Well, actually, there are many cultures that marry girls at ages which we would consider rape. So, it's not genetic or instinctual.

Those marriages are usually arranged, i.e. the parents "give" the girl away. Procreation in those cases is well expected and desired, often even by the girls themselves as marriage in general is considered a good thing. Rape is when procreation (at least potential) is forced with undesired stranger's gene pool, usually meaning "bad genes" (i.e. the rapist is not usually rich, smart, politically powerful, etc.) Awful "accidents" that fall somewhere in-between happen of course, but those are not the rule.

Anyway, I hope you're not seriously comparing marriage and rape?

[ninepalace]

Me personally, I'm all for killing off someone who rapes a child. I wouldn't waste anymore good oxygen on them...

What do you guys think? Discuss

i think we should just have a thread called "predict MikeC's position". i have a feeling it will be the only thread here in which everyone always agrees.

it's so ridiculous to think of the death penalty as a good idea for punishment. first of all, we all know what countries we are keeping company with by using it.
more importantly, i would rather have the death penalty than to rot it prison. and definitely have it over solitary confinement.

child rapist and killer wesley allen dodd of my home state begged for the death penalty. he got it. how great we rewarded him, don't you think mikeC?

[MikeC]

if one of my children was raped, most probably i'd be enraged and go and beat the living shit out of the rapist until i was too exhausted to move. but however satisfying that may be, it doesn't undo the act, and it doesn't make the kid feel any better, and it only makes the parent feel better temporarily. i suppose we as a society have to find a happy medium between our sense of compassion and our sense of revenge.

Moreso responsibility than revenge. If a murderer/rapist is dead then they can't harm any more people ever again.

Um... they can't harm children if they're serving a life sentence, either.

Umm, they can harm other inmates, they can harm prison guards, they can break out of prison and harm the public....ummmm

[Ian]

Umm, they can harm other inmates, they can harm prison guards, they can break out of prison and harm the public....ummmm

Actually you're right, I think deciding whom to execute on those three criteria is a sensible way to free up the majority of our prison space. Say, 90%? I dunno - you do the math. I'm not much of a thinker myself.

And we'd be creating jobs in other industries such as grave-digging, bouquet-arranging and coffin-making, which is essentially carpentry and as we all know, the big JC was a carpenter so I'm down with that.

Go Team America.

Umm

[MikeC]

And we'd be creating jobs in other industries such as grave-digging, bouquet-arranging and coffin-making, which is essentially carpentry and as we all know, the big JC was a carpenter so I'm down with that.

You forgot fertilizer

Go Team America.

Huzzah!

[Dmitri]

Whoa, Mike is quoting a "liberal thinker" in his signature?!

[Steve James]

Well, the fact that the court was split does not prove anything one way or the other. I was --and this thread is-- about the SC's decision.

But, if emotion is the deciding factor, then it makes the death penalty for any crime less tenable ot a rational mind.
Mobs are emotional. That's why there are laws, too.

Dmitri, "arranged marriage" and "child rape" are cultural distinctions when it comes to 8 and 9 year olds. And, I don't believe that you would think it right to arrange the marriage of your 5 year old. My point to you was that there's nothing "genetic" about your response. Some people feel differently. That's not to defend them, only to refute you.

Anyway, ya'll go ahead and argue. I was just making two points about reason and genetics. I remember when there were laws for everyone, but they were administered somewhat differently for one set of people than for another. I remember they said it was genetic. I don't think that, today, the death penalty will be given to everyone for the same crime. I will agree that the desire for seeing someone put to death is 99/100 percent emotional. I tend to be cold-blooded.

[Dmitri]

My point to you was that there's nothing "genetic" about your response.

Well, protecting your child is "genetic", although that's probably not the best term to be used here.
But we could just agree to disagree, you cold-blooded bastard you.

[MikeC]

Whoa, Mike is quoting a "liberal thinker" in his signature?!

Yes, not the type of liberal commonly referred to in this day and age. And it was a nice quote, BTW. Thanks.

[ninepalace]

Umm, they can harm other inmates, they can harm prison guards, they can break out of prison and harm the public....ummmm

wow, MikeC, you have no critical thinking skills. that's funny coming from a person who uses a Mill quote. have you ever even read Mill? his autobiography even?

[ninepalace]

by the way, MikeC, here's the next two lines after that quote.

"When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration."

his opinion was in reference to the civil war.