the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

All rapists should be fucking killed. Nothing cruel or unusual about it, not half as cruel as what they have done to others either. Stupid supreme court.

At least that's consistent. The only problem with "rape" as a crime, compared to "murder", is that it has to be "proven". I'm not a lawyer, but I would think the standard would be "beyond a reasonable doubt." As a corrollary, it would be much more difficult to reach that standard in a rape case than in a murder case. Murder victims can not lie or mistake intentions and then testify against their accuser.

Of course, if we want to get all Solomonic about punishment, we could also have rapists be raped or receive the same treatment as their victims, even for life. We could make them permanent jail boy/girls. Shucks, we could sell dey asses out. I mean, there are much more imaginative forms of punishment than execution.

Steve James wrote:Shucks, we could sell dey asses out. I mean, there are much more imaginative forms of punishment than execution.

Executions can be pretty fun too: they can be used for buki buki until dead.

Well, fwiw, if there are crimes "worse than death", then there must also be punishments "worse than death."

As I said, if we want to get Solomonic, we can make the punishment fit the crime much better. For example, if the rapist has children, we can have them raped by the parents of the victim. I mean, if we "really" want to even things up. But, read the Merchant of Venice.

And, as always, "what if" we're wrong?

That's fine. But do we have to take the position now that EVERY convicted criminal might be innocent?

Well, all convicted criminals are by definition "guilty." I'm talking about the "wrongly convicted." Murdering a murderer is not as disturbing (to me) as murdering a person who has been wrongly convicted.

No, there's no logical necessity to assume that all convicts are innocent. However, there is also supposed to be a "presumption of innocence" until the crime (of murder) has been proven "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Now, if you want to debate the morality of the death penalty, fine. Hey, in the Bible, people were stoned to death for adultery. Er, well, there was this one heretic, by the name of Jesus, who said "Ok, let the one of you who hasn't sinned cast the first stone." Or, something like that, but here's where I agree with the others that this issue is all about emotion and not justice or reason. Of course, Jesus couldn't get away with that nowadays. There'd surely be someone willing ... who didn't even know the husband or wife, but was just in favor of the punishment. "A Tale of Two Cities" comes to mind.

The criminal system in the US was set up to give the maximum chance to avoid wrongful convictions. There is a quote by one of the founding fathers which paraphrased is roughly "it is better for a guilty man to go free than for an innocent man to be punished."

I agree with that, and with modern technology we can be more certain of a criminals guilt than ever. I have no problem in requiring death penalty punishments to be supported with DNA evidence.

My problem is with rape and the way the court systems approach it. I have a friend who was raped by her neighbor. She went to the police, they took a statement, they did a rape kit. Then they refused to make an arrest, refused to do anything about this guy that still lived next to her, denied a restraining order, and the back log on rape kits in Ohio last I checked was over 2 years, and they said tehy had to get the results back before they could make an arrest. That muther fucker have been in jail within a day or two and been convicted within a few months. Last I heard no charges have been filed for that crime. My friend was seriously fucked up and had to move to get away from him. To make matters worse there is a 5 yr statute of limitations on rape in most states. There shouldn't be any. When someone is murdered they are done suffering when they die. When someone is raped they have to carry that with them the rest of their lives. Many people never recover from the psychological damage.

Personally of all of my female friends I know 2 who have NOT been raped. All the girlfriends I had in high school only 1 of them had not been raped before. Estimates are around 1 third of all women in the US have been rapedl, and to our courts its treated like a joke. Not to mention other blatant sexism in things like health insurance, a man can get viagra paid for with health insurance but a woman cannot get birth control even though birth control is used to treat several conditions of the womanly organs and viagra is just a pill for men to get their jollies; and unwanted pregnancies cost the US economy a lot more each year than limp dicks do.

DT, I agree with what you say about the horror of rape. It's hard to prove and can be hard to deny. The best thing we can do as a society, imo, is help the survivor. And, because of the inherent difficulties connected to proving the crime, I don't agree with the death penalty for it.

as for 'killing all rapists' - what about incidents where woman has argument with man and claims rape after a messy breakup? I've seen that happen before. I've also seen workplace romances go on for long time and then after breakup the woman claims sexual harrassment and sues.

D.T's cooment about most of the women he knew having been the victim of rape is on the money. Older males convince, cajole or coerce younger females into doing things they might have considered, but wouldn't have done at the time. Then, there are the times when the woman has had too much to drink and regrets it later. What about consensual acts between children? If death is the highest punishment, what are the lesser punishments? 20 to life? It's hard enough without the additional complications of capital punishment.

alan dershowitz in his book "contrary to popular opinion" cites statistics that rape is the most over reported and under reported crime. take that for what it's worth.

also DeusTm, what do you think the punishment should be for someone who just keyed your car?