More Road Rage Murders

[meeks]

So, guns don't exist in other countries right? And people don't get hurt in other countries except by being shot right? I mean, people don't ever get stabbed, beaten, kicked to death, whatever in other countries right?

I thought this was a discussion about gun control. These guys start totally pwning Mike and he starts saying "but but but... those guys get hurt by other methods..."

[Steve James]

"That 87% is probably gangbangers killing other gangbangers."

Hmm, well, would that mean that some of the 13% of homicides (in self defense protection) were committed by gun owners who weren't gangbangers? I mean, your argument has been that criminals (like gangmembers) have guns, therefore ordinary citizens should arm themselves. So, they don't always shoot other gangmembers.

But, otoh, if the possession of guns reduces violence, why would gangmembers make up 87%? Wouldn't their possession of guns make it less likely "that they would kill each other"?

Both premises can't be true.

[CaliG]

Mike,

So you think it's just gangbangers killing gangbangers.

Well what would you do to stop this stuff?

Four people shot outside New Life Church in Colorado Springs, USA

Sunday, December 9, 2007

Early afternoon saw a shooting in the church parking lot of New Life Church, an Evangelical Megachurch, in Colorado Springs, Colorado, United States. According to a report quoting the church's pastor four people were shot by a gunman in the car park.

At this time it is unknown if there is any connection with yesterday's shooting approximately 70 miles away in Arvada, Colorado, where a gunman shot two and injured two people at Faith Bible Chapel's missionary training centre in a dormitory.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Four_people ... rings,_USA

[Finny]

No that can't be true - all of the shootings in america take place in the two or three places with handgun bans.

Right Mike?

I did forget about that argument you put forward - I still don't understand it, but you're saying that there are more shootings in places with handgun bans > because the "good guys" aren't armed and willing to shoot the bad guys.

Hahaha

How do these shootings take place then? The only people with guns in these places with handgun bans must be "bad guys" - that's why they shoot people? Is that it?

So, in America, when you ban handguns, you get MORE shootings - elsewhere in the world where there are strict gun controls, you get NO shootings - is that right Mike?

How do you explain this?

[Ian]

The freedom FROM EVER getting shot, or THE FREEDOM TO SHOOT BACK WHEN YOU GET SHOT???

So, guns don't exist in other countries right? And people don't get hurt in other countries except by being shot right? I mean, people don't ever get stabbed, beaten, kicked to death, whatever in other countries right?

Don't be simple Ian.

I like to keep things simple. Like in Clint Eastwood films. Good guys are good, bad guys are bad.

Bad guy shoots me, I shoot him. One of us gets dead.

Never having to worry about being shot... that's what PUSSIES and SHEEPLE want. Not for me. I'd rather have the LIBERTY to be shot.

And shoot back.

In response to your question: in other civilized countries people get shot, stabbed, beaten, kicked to death etc. much less because the government doesn't trust the sheeple to carry knives and wear combat boots and they keep a much tighter lid on that kinda thing.

Those pussies never get to experience the FREEDOM of being stabbed and having the LIBTERY to return fire, but they don't care because they're not responsible, freedom-loving, rootin tootin hootin hollerin God-fearing Mercans.

[Ian]

Serious questions now:

When there are two clear, equally armed factions trying to kill each other (e.g. Crips and Bloods), which side triumphs?

Is there still no definitive end to this conflict because they aren't praying hard enough? Or because neither side is truly good?

[Steve James]

"Triumphs"? They're both still around, and they are by no means the most vicious or violent. I'd also like to add that "gang violence" often centers around control of the drug trade in certain areas. In the more up-scale areas, of course, there's just as much drugs and at least as much prostitution and other illegal activities. It's not hard to trace the direct connection between where drugs are coming from and where gangs and gang violence are coming from.

[Ian]

"Triumphs"? They're both still around...

That's what I'm saying.

Why is it that when two sides are equally armed, violent, and have the tendency to defend themselves...

Why do homicides still occur? Why don't conflicts cease? Why aren't people safer?

Is it because they're not THE GOOD GUYS? Or what?

Steve - rhetorical questions.

[edededed]

People believe what they want to believe (and find statistics that they like to "prove" it).

1. Guns give long-ranged, multiple-shot, nearly instantaneous killing power to almost anyone
2. Guns can be used for good or bad (but mostly killing)
3. Good people should have guns
4. Bad people shouldn't have guns
5. It is hard to tell who is good and who is bad

We should still at least try to keep less guns in the hands of bad people, I think... difficult, but still necessary.

Or, should someone invent a non-lethal but incapacitating weapon that people can use instead? Weapons for defense shouldn't necessarily be lethal (they must be effective, though).

I think a lot of people just simply like guns. (Sort of like a hobby.)

[edededed]

Are Mercans like Mexicans? Oh, wait, Mercans are from Mercer County, right?

[ninepalace]

I think a lot of people just simply like guns. (Sort of like a hobby.)

that's pretty much all there is to it.

[Ian]

I want to see puke sticks, like in Minority Report.

And if we must have guns and knives, let's make them blunderbusses and cutlasses! Go hard or go home!

[Kevin_Wallbridge]

"... blunderbusses and cutlasses!"

Pirates rule, Ninjas wear jammies.

[strawdog]

The good guys are the ones who obtain their guns through legal means. People who are against gun ownership just don't know any better. This country was founded by men with guns not by sniveling pencil pushers disguised as kung fu experts.

People often over play gun incidents. These foreigners have no clue about how it is here. People like to get over dramatic about criminals with guns. They think people are just shooting each other all the time. They just don't know any better and posting opinions like they lived here.

[Steve James]

Hmm, ok, were the guys who invented guns good or bad?

Anyway, that comment about less-lethal methods of self defense is valid. Police --who are "trained" to shoot peole-- have sought other forms of protection from attack, such as tasers, spray, etc. What's interesting is that, in this debate, "guns" seem to be the only things considered "arms." (Yeah, we could say that the Founders meant "bare arms" (like in the Arm and Hammer logo) or "bear arms" (since you can certainly beat the shit out of someone with a bear's arm, so two or more of them would be that much more effective).

Of course, since we all live in such dangerous places, anybody used their piece in self-defense lately?

Personally, I do like guns (as a hobby); but I wouldn't carry in the street unless I meant to use it or thought it was likely. Just too much trouble.