More Road Rage Murders

[CaliG]

Mike, it seems you feel the need to defend yourself alot these days and that the defence is getting more strident. Take it easy please and try to not be so personal. Objection to intellectual positions can get tense enough.

Even in off-topic this is getting too much. I could probably have posted this about some other people. Some how your post was the one that seemed to cross the line. What is this forum about anyway? Shit talking and name calling is easy to find on the web, respectful differences is rare. Sometimes we have it. The main forum has been pretty solid lately (dare I say since the "split"). How long before the nastiness happening here colours the whole place?

ITS NOT PERSONAL MIKE!

Exactly there's no need for that. Nothing we say on here is going to change a damn thing anyway.

[Steve James]

It's very true that MS13 is made up (nowadays) of refugees from the wars in Central America --and we could really get into a hot debate about who supported those wars in the first place. But, fwiw, MS13 made its reputation because they were/are ruthless and unrepentant. There's no way in the world that the average American family coming home from a bbq will ever be able to compete, either in terms of armament or ruthlesness. And, by ruthless, I mean that --if it is actually MS involved-- neither the remaining family members, witnesses, prosecutors, judges or anyone else is not a possible target for threats --even if this guy is convicted.

I think we'll have to wait to see how this all plays out before making any decisions about larger issues. Otoh, imo, this would be a better case for proponents of the death penalty to argue. Intentional mass murder of a family over a driving dispute would deserve to be up there on the list.

[strawdog]

Just lay down and give up caliG.

[MikeC]

Mike, it seems you feel the need to defend yourself alot these days and that the defence is getting more strident. Take it easy please and try to not be so personal. Objection to intellectual positions can get tense enough.

Even in off-topic this is getting too much. I could probably have posted this about some other people. Some how your post was the one that seemed to cross the line. What is this forum about anyway? Shit talking and name calling is easy to find on the web, respectful differences is rare. Sometimes we have it. The main forum has been pretty solid lately (dare I say since the "split"). How long before the nastiness happening here colours the whole place?

ITS NOT PERSONAL MIKE!

Well the troll comment made it personal...jus sayin.

[CaliG]

Just lay down and give up caliG.

Thanks. But why would I do that? We're just talking.

Other than the fact these guys don't fear death and are likely to shot you before you can even look at them twice, this isn't really a gun issue to me.

I know what having a gun means, it means instead of running away and calling the police you chase the mofos down. (But not in this case.)

When NRA members always say they should have fired back to me it's just a way for them to deal with their own fears.

I don't really want to get into a gun debate because people have their own opinions and experiences and no one is going to change anyone else's.

My question is WTF is going in a society where people are being shot for some little road rage incident? Because as we know this is just one of many in God's country.

[bigphatwong]

Cali, I'm pretty sure Ian was just being sarcastic. kind of like JW's "long live the America, march march!" posts.

[Darthwing Teorist]

I agree with Steve that this case is a much better one for death penalty.

Sometimes, I think that citizens living in gang infested areas should get themselves together, form a posse and clean the area with extreme prejudice. But of course, this means that the said posse may replace the gangs and like Steve pointed out, you cannot trust mobs with justice.

[Ian]

Ban all guns! No one should have access to guns at all therefore everyone will be nice to each other and we'll all be safe and sing LaLa together...

Oh wait, we tried that already...;/

Well these things don't happen in Europe.

Guns don't kill people, people with weapons specifically designed to kill people kill people.

So you'd be fine with a ban on plastic explosives, landmines, and crossbows?

But then how would the goodies kill the baddies?

And killing baddies is good.

Do you see how ridiculously circular your logic is?

[CaliG]

Bro,

Growing up in LA was rough, so unfortunately I do know a thing or two about this shit.

But I've also lived in Europe.

In the major city I lived in probably the biggest news story on violent crime that happened when I was there for 2 and half years was a stabbing of a guy who claimed to be a fan of the wrong soccer team.

Btw, if you're so NRA then why are you going to France?

[Ian]

Hint: my last two posts were sarcastic.

[Finny]

Sarcasm, CaliG, Sarcasm.

I got into a "gun control" debate with Mike a year or so back, and the essence of his argument was "If I'm gonna be attacked by folks with guns, I want to be able to have a gun to defend myself with"

Any situation he was presented with, he basically said "yeah, but wouldn't you rather have a gun to protect yourself with in that scenario?"

Well - there you have it. This poor guy and his two sons SHOULD have, according to Mike, armed themselves. Then they'd still be alive.

Never mind the fact that this sort of stuff NEVER happens here in Australia, New Zealand, or in Europe either.

You can't argue with the pile of bodies riddled with bullets in US morgues. And the lack of gunshot victims elsewhere.

But keep trying Mike, you're doing well.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Ban all guns! No one should have access to guns at all therefore everyone will be nice to each other and we'll all be safe and sing LaLa together...

Oh wait, we tried that already...;/

when?

[Ian]

Finny, you're missing the trees for the forest; the minutiae for the big picture.

Sure, the Bolognas could've had guns if they wanted to.

And granted, the father and his 20 year old son were shot to death almost immediately.

But you're FORGETTING the 16 year old son - the one who was in critical condition. If HE had recovered in time and returned fire with his Glock 19, who's to say that the good guys wouldn't have triumphed?

The POINT is to arm and train ALL the good guys to be ready to kill ALL THE TIME, whether they like it or not.

That way we can bring the mortality rate down to zero, like those other countries where people are constantly shooting at each other.

I know what you're thinking - with so many people shooting at each other, who's to say the good guys won't get hurt?

Glad you asked.

First, bullets from good guys and bullets from bad guys creates a sort of bullet equilibrium, which is perfectly safe. Second, we're the good guys and God's on our side.

[Finny]

I see I see

Thanks for the lesson Ian, I was clearly confused.

[edededed]

Ed, criminals will ALWAYS have guns, prohibited or not. Think about it.

Still, the US has a lot more gun violence than most other modern nations - there IS a problem.

Yeah, Japan's yakuza sometimes have guns - but it is really RARE. Less is actually better. (A few of the police have guns, too.)

Good people + more guns = good
Good people + guns = good
Good people = good
Bad people = bad
Bad people + guns = worse
Bad people + more guns = worst