young child vegetarians

[meeks]

http://lifestyle.ca.msn.com/family-parenting/health-safety/rogers-article.aspx?cp-documentid=23516256
Militant 7-year-old vegetarians
Accommodating new food preferences is manageable, but the fanaticism can be trying


In the film Mommie Dearest, Hollywood legend Joan Crawford tries to force her adopted daughter to eat a piece of meat. “She negotiates everything like a goddamn Hollywood agent,” Crawford complains to her housekeeper. “Christina, eat your lunch. You are not getting up from this table until you have finished that meat.”

Two years ago in Vancouver, Carolye Kuchta’s six-year-old daughter Celia declared that she would no longer eat meat; her son had once made the same adamant pronouncement. Kuchta, a meat-eater, would never force her kids to eat meat but admits she had misgivings about the potential health risks of a meatless diet, and that switching to accommodate her kids’ food preferences was “pretty inconvenient at first.”

“Of course, as parents, we think it’s just a fad—like when Maxwell wanted to sleep on the floor in a tent forever, and that lasted a week.” Maxwell’s vegetarianism lasted six months. Celia was a different story. “She announced at the table one day that she was vegetarian, and that was it, there’s been no going back.” Celia turns nine in March. “She feels it’s her mission in life to help the planet and protect nature.”

Kuchta says her daughter’s righteousness was the greatest challenge at first. Celia is vigilant about keeping her vegetarian food far from the contamination of her mom’s meat dishes. “She would say, ‘I don’t want those beans because they were too close on that plate to where meat was.’ Or, ‘If that knife has touched meat you can’t put it on my plate.’ She won’t have anything that has a trace of chicken bouillon in it, not even organic chicken bouillon. Even if the spoon has gone into the pot that has organic chicken bouillon and then it’s gone into her pot, that’s not okay.”

For the first six months of Celia’s conversion, “she could not tolerate us saying the meat word,” says Kuchta. “We literally would have to say the m-word. ‘Maxwell, do you want m-word on your plate?’ ” When Celia was six, “We did have to have a small conversation about defining what the word fanatical means,” says Kuchta. “Now we can say the m-word. I try to support her ethics while not supporting her fanaticism.”

To help make meal preparation easier, Kuchta has educated her daughter on the difference between a protein and a carbohydrate. “I can say to her, ‘Maxwell and I are going to eat this. I would like you to look in the fridge or the cupboard and find a protein for yourself.’ So she’ll look around and say, ‘Actually, I feel like having an egg.’ I’ll say, ‘Okay,’ and cook her up an egg. ” Celia “really understands it quite well,” says Kuchta. “Occasionally, she’ll make a mistake. She’ll say, ‘I’ll have this as my protein,’ and I’ll have to point out it’s a carb.”

Jennifer McCann is a mother and the author of Vegan Lunch Box and Vegan Lunch Box Around the World. McCann tells parents, “If your child doesn’t want to eat meat, I think you should respect it and educate yourself a bit.” McCann says protein (found in nuts, beans, tofu) is essential to children’s diets. She suggests sitting down with the child and saying, “Tell me what vegetables you like and we’ll make a list.” The parent should then make a list of protein options, and ask the child, “Do you like this, do you like that?” “That’s the list you go shopping with,” she says.

Daisy Sharrock’s daughter Kyna became a vegetarian at age five. “It happened suddenly,” she says. “Once she cognitively knew what a bird was and realized this was chicken, she didn’t want to eat it.” Sharrock, a UBC grad now teaching math and chemistry in southern California, notes the irony of having a vegetarian daughter. She was raised on a farm on B.C.’s Denman Island, where her back-to-the-land father castrated his own pigs on the grounds that castration improves the taste of pork. For Sharrock, knowing where meat comes from is an enticement to eat it, not a reason to reject it.

At dinner, Sharrock “breaks out the beans and tofu” for Kyna, who, at lunch, is a “pretty solid peanut butter sandwich person. So far, she seems exceedingly healthy.” Like Kuchta, Sharrock has spoken to her seven-year-old daughter about her meatless zealotry. When Kyna pressures her parents to stop eating meat, “we push back,” says Sharrock. “We say, ‘This is a choice.’ ” Sharrock tells of the time at a restaurant when a friend ordered meat. “Well! I just lost my appetite,” Kyna said. “We told her, ‘No, you can’t take that tack. It’s not right to be saying such a thing at the table.’ ”

[mixjourneyman]

obsessive compulsive disorder does that kind of thing to kids....

[mixjourneyman]

My sister stopped eating beef around age seven and went vegan around twelve or thirteen.
She is an adult now and continues her vegan diet, although she has relaxed a bit and will now eat foods that were processed with the same machinery that was used earlier to process dairy.
Honestly, I'm all about freedom of choice and it wasn't too hard for my family to incorporate her veganism (and mine for a few years) into our family diet. The good thing is we never pressured our parents too hard to give up meat or anything.
Now I eat fish because my doctor told me that soy products are not a good thing to be constantly eating, and to be honest now that I am older and more tolerant I'm finding it easier to eat animal products.
I think a big problem with veggies and vegans is that they build up huge mental blocks to animal products and it can spill over into other areas of their lives.

[Azer]

On a somewhat related note.

There was a really interesting program on the other night about meat, cooking and the effect it had on our evolution.

For those in the UK I recommend you check this out, some really interesting research there too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... _Us_Human/

Here is a brief article about some stuff covered:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8543906.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mgxf

[Darth Rock&Roll]

great, just great.

Next thing you know, vegetarianism is going to become an eating disorder

I mean, it already is when people start basing their diet off of their fears.

I'm glad I won't have to live much longer tahn another 50 years or so, I don't think I have the patience for the future and all it holds. lol

[Steve Rowe]

I've trained in the martial arts for over 40 years, 30 years professionally, trained kickboxing, boxing, hard types of karate, bodybuilding, gym work etc and worked in the security field for many of those years, been a veggie all that time without a problem. It's only a problem if you don't know or understand your foods.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Militant eaters turn me off, but anyone who wants to make a choice about their diet and stick to it, well go ahead!
I have met many vegans who are perfectly healthy and I have met many people who are unhealthy from their diets and lifestyles.

It is really not much concern to me.

so long as there is good scotch.

[lars]

yep, also a veggie here, performing proffesionally with hard physical stage work.
And train bagua.
No problems with vegetarian diet.
In the last years, i have come to eat fish once in a while and seafood... Cant be married to a chilean without eating seafood!

[roger hao]

It's a different story when you are raising kids
and taking flak from family and friends for how you feed them.
I raised my 3 kids to age 8 with no meat and no cow milk.
They are all healthy today and so am I.

[DeusTrismegistus]

I think its important to remember the middle path, not going to either extreme for most things. Extreme veganism can be dangerous for children. At the very least milk and eggs need to be included and soy avoided.

Wed, 5th June 2002 Guilty verdict in Moorhead case
http://www.clear.net.nz/news/archives/a ... 20337.html

The jury at the High Court in Auckland has this afternoon returned a guilty verdict, in the trial of Deborah and Jan Moorhead.
The couple had been charged with the death of their six month old son Caleb, by failing to provide the necessaries of life.

Thu, 6th June 2002 Moorheads went "beyond church teachings"
http://www.clear.net.nz/news/archives/a ... 20344.html

The Seventh Day Adventist Church does not believe many of its followers have the same attitude towards the medical profession as Deborah and Jan Moorhead.
The Dargaville couple have been found guilty of causing the death of their six-month-old son Caleb by failing to provide the necessaries of life. They will be sentenced on June 13.
Seventh Day Adventist spokesman Dr Percy Harold says the Moorheads went far beyond church teachings in refusing medical help. He says most Seventh Day Adventist members would not take the same line. He says people in many countries take genuine beliefs to the point where they end up causing harm.
Doctors found that Caleb was severely anaemic and was suffering from developmental problems due to a lack of vitamin B12.
Deborah Moorhead's breast milk, Caleb's only nutrition, lacked the vitamin.
The Moorheads are vegans.
They took Caleb out of Auckland's Starship children's hospital, preferring to treat him with alternative herbal remedies.
He died in late March, last year.


Baby death parents spared jail
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health ... 542293.stm
Friday, 14 September, 2001, 17:34 GMT 18:34 UK

The parents of a nine-month-old girl who died after being fed a fruit-based diet have been spared a jail sentence.

Areni Manuelyan died of a chest infection, brought on by malnutrition in July 2000 weighing just eleven and a half pounds, six pounds less than she should have. At her post mortem she was found to be markedly thin, dehydrated and to have severe pneumonia - all of which could be linked to malnutrition. At their trial, her parents, Garabet and Hazmik Manuelyan, both 45, pleaded guilty to child cruelty.

That would normally have resulted in a prison sentence. But at the Old Bailey on Friday, Judge David Paget said what had happened to the family was punishment enough.

The Armenian couple, from Staines, Surrey, described as "loving but misguided" in court, were placed under a community rehabilitation order for three years. Mrs Manuelyan still sleeps on the blanket that last held Areni.

She was described by Linda Strudwick who was defending her as "a mother who cared passionately for her children. Perhaps she cared too much."

The couple's two other children have been taken into care.

Judge Paget said: "This is a wholly exceptional and tragic case.

"You have been punished and will continue to be punished by the consequences of your actions."

Concerns
The couple were vegans, but in 1996 switched to a fruitarian diet consisting of raw vegetables fruit and nuts.

After Areni's birth on 8 September 1999, the family saw a paediatrician who said the baby was not developing properly, and that her mother's breastmilk was nutritionally deficient. Other doctors and social workers warned against the diet.

But the court was told the couple had shown a "stubborn refusal", and would not follow the advice.

Later, the family went to live on a vegetarian commune in Spain, where they believed Areni's Vitamin D deficiency would be cured by sunlight.

The couple believed all Areni needed was "sunshine and fruit".

They returned to the UK in July 2000 when Areni became seriously ill.

A doctor who the couple went to see, who specialised in oxygen therapy, told Areni's parents she needed to be taken to hospital immediately.

But Mr Manuelyan, a bus driver, was said to be worried about the chemicals his daughter may be treated with, and the couple ignored the advice.

On July 5, 2000, an ambulance was called to the family home because Areni had stopped breathing. She was taken to hospital and later certified dead.

A nutritionist said even if she had been taken to hospital the day before her death, she could have survived.

'Ill-advised'
Nutritionists say a fruitarian, or fruit-only diet, is completely ill-advised for such a small child. They add that even adults need to be careful not to stick to a fruit-only diet for too long.

Catherine Collins, a spokeswoman for the British Dietetic Association, (BDA) said some fruitarians did eat raw vegetables or pulses. But she said: "The main problem for a nine-month old child is that they need a very high calorie to weight intake."

Without that, she said babies of that age - and younger - would not have the fuel they need for muscle growth, organ growth and brain development. They would miss out on proteins, iron, calcium, essential fatty acids and raw fibre, which will all affect their development.

BDF paediatric dietician Nicole Dos Santos said babies would also need the fat and nutrients they would receive from breast or bottle milk, and it was important babies received one or the other.

She said a fruit-only diet was unsuitable for a child. "This is not a diet a child should be put on."


Vegan Couple Starved Toddler, Cops Say
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51494,00.html
Tuesday, April 30, 2002

NEW YORK -- A vegan couple in New York City were busted for starving their baby daughter -- by denying her breast milk and formula, feeding her only nuts, fruits and vegetables, and allegedly failing to get her medical help for severe malnutrition.

Joseph and Silva Swinton, both 31, were arrested Friday and charged with reckless endangerment and endangering the welfare of a child for failing to properly feed and care for their baby, Ice. The Swintons, who are being held in lieu of $20,000 bail, face up to seven years in prison if convicted.

Sixteen-month-old Ice Swinton weighed only 10 pounds, looked like a 2- or 3-month-old and was half the normal weight of a child her age when authorities discovered her close to death last November. EMS workers rushed Ice to from her Queens home to Long Island Jewish Hospital, where doctors diagnosed her with developmental problems, a distended abdomen, fractured bones, a vitamin deficiency called rickets and a lung disorder — all caused by malnutrition, authorities said.

The Swintons, who say they approach veganism as a religion, fed the child a diet of "ground nuts, fresh-squeezed fruit juices, herbal tea, beans, cod liver oil and flax seed oil," a complaint said. Even when doctors told the couple their baby was on the brink of death in November, both parents insisted "there was nothing wrong" and were resistant to treatment, the complaint said. After a four-month hospital stay, the New York City Administration for Children's Services placed the baby in a foster home.

Several months on a healthy diet have helped the 20-month-old to achieve the functions of a 10- to 12-month-old baby, but the child is still struggling, authorities said. Warren Silverman, a lawyer representing the mother, questioned why there was such a long delay to file charges.

"If Long Island Jewish Hospital at that time thought that something was amiss, why wasn't something done right away?" he asked.

The Swintons have been allowed supervised visits with their daughter — but ACS has asked that a judge order them stopped after the father said he thought the child was getting "chubby," sources said.

Neighbor Toyin Savage said she was "shocked."

Another neighbor said she saw the baby recently.

"I asked how old she was and they said, 'Almost a year.' She looked very small. They said she was a vegetarian — I didn't think about it at the time."


Young Vegans May Not be Getting Vital Nutrients
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 2002;76:100-106

Young vegans may be missing out on certain essential nutrients, according to a new study by Swedish scientists.

Because vegans shun all animal products, they may get too little of some nutrients found in meat and dairy products, such as calcium and vitamin B-12. Such deficiencies are of particular concern when it comes to growing teens.

In their report, Christel L. Larsson and Gunnar K. Johansson of Umea University interviewed 30 vegans between the ages of 16 and 20 about their daily food intake. They also analyzed blood and urine samples for the presence of essential nutrients. The results were compared to a similar group of omnivore--or meat- and plant-eating--adolescents.

"The dietary habits of the vegans varied considerably and did not comply with the average requirements for some essential nutrients," Larsson and Johansson write in the July issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Specifically, the researchers report that "vegans had dietary intakes lower than the average requirements of riboflavin (a B vitamin), vitamin B-12, vitamin D, calcium and selenium."

Vegans had higher intakes of vegetables, legumes and dietary supplements, but even after the researchers included dietary supplements in their analysis, the vegans' intake of calcium and selenium remained low.

Among the men, vegans tended to weigh less and have a lower body mass index--a ratio of weight in relation to height. There was no such difference between female vegans and omnivores, however.

"It is important for adolescents in general and vegetarians in particular to receive knowledge, both theoretical and practical, about how to combine and prepare a healthy diet," the authors conclude

[roger hao]

I am also under investigation for denying the H1N1
flu vaccine to my mom.

Tell me why milk is neccessary. Strange - since our
mothers are not cows.

I guess I will have to apologize to my beautiful healthy
30 yr old daughter and her 2 healthy kids after she completes
her next running competition.

[mixjourneyman]

Tell me why milk is neccessary. Strange - since our
mothers are not cows.

+5
(especially with all the drugs that go into cows these days)

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I am also under investigation for denying the H1N1
flu vaccine to my mom.

Tell me why milk is neccessary. Strange - since our
mothers are not cows.

I guess I will have to apologize to my beautiful healthy
30 yr old daughter and her 2 healthy kids after she completes
her next running competition.

Under investigation? Where do you live? In commie land?
And exactly how is it that you are denying somneone else vaccine?
Are you the doctor who distributes it?

And I agree. People don't really know that much about diet because we are each and everyone of us different in not only our likes and dislikes, but in our reactions to different foods and food types.

meat is not necessary, dairy is not necessary.
All and any animal products are not necessary in the human diet as there are millions of vegetarians who have never eaten any of those things and are remarkably healthy.

I work with a guy whose niece have been totally vegan all their lives.

they are incredibly smart, (and well educated), completely physically fit (they're in their 20's and quite nice looking actually lol) and rarely if ever contract common colds or diseases. So, that pretty much throws the whole dairy and meat are needed argument out the window.

defenestrated is that idea! lol

me personally, ill eat whatever i can afford and what I won't gag up. lol
I'm just zen that way. If it's calories, I will consume it.

[lars]

I have come to believe that it is completely individual, and also change during the course of a life.
The necessity of meat or dairy products that is...

I know a lot of people that have been training the same stuff as i, and a lot started out as vegetarians. Even though they combined their diet well, some of them didnt have much energy, and began to get frail. They started to feel the urge of meat, much to their dislike at first, but when they started to eat it it seemed natural for them and they got better.
Also just age process have made a big change in some of my friends, that suddenly have felt the need to either become vegetarians or carnivores...

To believe that there is a universal rule for everybody seems plain stupid to me. Each body is different and need different nutrients. And sometime the need change because of age or lifechoices...

my 2 c

[Bär]

I have no concern over what people decide to eat whether "good" or "bad" especially since those labels change very frequently. What I do care about is smugness & self-righteousness which exists on both sides of this issue but is frankly more of a veggie/vegan trait, although not here in this thread.



I love watching veggies & vegans eat. Lots and lots of practically non-food carbs & cheese and they're clearly missing some animal protein and trying to make up for it with the cheese, which is a major nutritional step down from any "dangers" of eating real meat. They're picky about what veggies they do eat and a poor diet overall. They should call themselves "starchatarians." My observations don't apply to traditional veggie cultures, religions & countries who can really cook some veg, like India, etc....

I'm an unabashed carnivore and I eat way more real vegetables (not just "things that aren't meat") than most of the "veggies" I've encountered here in 'Merca. They're not sincere vegetarians. There are control issues - mommy & daddy issues - bound up in the way some people eat restrictive diets and certainly those with anorexia/bulimia. Not to mention the fad of eating no meat and calling yourself a veg. If you really want to make diet the focus of your life, knock yourself out. Have fun eating outside the home if you don't live in a large-ish city. It's crappy pasta primavera, that limp veggie tray with factory-made ranch dressing or yet another green salad for you.

One thing is clear - absolutely everyone could stand more veggies in their diet. A whole head of broccoli is less than 150 calories - you sure can't get fat eating that unless of course it's drowned in cheese & butter.

My wife was a veg when we got together. She started eating meat after watching me eat it for a few years. Her real issue with meat was the way it was cooked by her mom, who learned to cook from a paranoid Irish-American woman (her MIL) who cooked everything about an hour longer than it needed. And even if she didn't overcook it, it wasn't going to be good. One she got some well-prepared chicken, fish & meat she was converted.