Exorcism

[KEND]

Just when you thought the Vatican was adjusting to the 21st century
If a regular person said this he would be thought of as certifiably insane

March 10, 2010
London Times
Chief exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth says Devil is in the Vatican
Richard Owen in Rome
Don Gabriele Amorth is the chief exorcist at the Vatican
Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.
Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".
He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true – including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia."
He claimed that another example of satanic behaviour was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".
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A remarkably swift Vatican investigation concluded that Corporal Tornay had shot the commander and his wife and then turned his gun on himself after being passed over for a medal. However Tornay's relatives have challenged this. There have been unconfirmed reports of a homosexual background to the tragedy and the involvement of a fourth person who was never identfied.
Father Amorth, who has just published Memoirs of an Exorcist, a series of interviews with the Vatican journalist Marco Tosatti, said that the attempt on the life of Pope John Paul II in 1981 had been the work of the Devil, as had an incident last Christmas when a mentally disturbed woman threw herself at Pope Benedict XVI at the start of Midnight Mass, pulling him to the ground.
Father José Antonio Fortea Cucurull, a Rome-based exorcist, said that Father Amorth had "gone well beyond the evidence" in claiming that Satan had infiltrated the Vatican corridors.
"Cardinals might be better or worse, but all have upright intentions and seek the glory of God," he said. Some Vatican officials were more pious than others, "but from there to affirm that some cardinals are members of satanic sects is an unacceptable distance."
Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was "pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me."
He said it sometimes took six or seven of his assistants to to hold down a possessed person. Those possessed often yelled and screamed and spat out nails or pieces of glass, which he kept in a bag. "Anything can come out of their mouths – finger-length pieces of iron, but also rose petals."
He said that hoped every diocese would eventually have a resident exorcist. Under Church Canon Law any priest can perform exorcisms, but in practice they are carried out by a chosen few trained in the rites.
Father Amorth was ordained in 1954 and became an official exorcist in 1986. In the past he has suggested that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were possessed by the Devil. He was among Vatican officials who warned that J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter novels made a "false distinction between black and white magic".
He approves, however, of the 1973 film The Exorcist, which although "exaggerated" offered a "substantially exact" picture of possession.
In 2001 he objected to the introduction of a new version of the exorcism rite, complaining that it dropped centuries-old prayers and was "a blunt sword" about which exorcists themselves had not been consulted. The Vatican said later that he and other exorcists could continue to use the old ritual.
He is the president of honour of the Association of Exorcists.

[Bill]

A regular person does not have this mans depth of experience with the Devil and exorcisms.

[Kato]

Neither does a sane person.

[Dmitri]

That must be a great conversation starter at parties, when you have "Chief exorcist Father" in front of your name.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

There's a couple of ways you could look at this:


a) the vatican and all that cascades off of it are merely self fulfilling fantasies and prophecies made strong by the sheer amount of people who believe in them/it.

b) the greatest deception that Satan ever played was convincing you that Satan doesn't exist.

I think both are valid, but that's just me.
Everything happens in the context of human experience. It has to because of what we are.

But not everything has a human context, because not everything, in fact most of everything has nothing to do with humans.

there is no other creature like us on this planet anywhere or anywhere else to the best of our knowledge.
We do not know quite yet exactly what it is that we are!

Most fascinating and deliciously intriguing if you ask me!

[Bill]

Taoists and Buddhists and Catholics all perform exorcisms. Maybe, just maybe they know somethings that you don't.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Taoists and Buddhists and Catholics all perform exorcisms. Maybe, just maybe they know somethings that you don't.

Buddhists? really, that is contrary to the teachings of the highly revered Lotus Sutra which advises that all such phenomena are mere illusion and to regard them as such.

The Roman Catholics would be more accurate, seeing as Catholic covers High Anglicans as well and several other versions and sects of Christianity which are Catholic (universal) but not of the Roman Catholic variety...

I'm sure everyone knows something that someone else doesn't and I'm sure there are many who cling to knowledge that is wholly invalid when held to the light of day.

Still, it's interesting. This past decade has brought some really fascinating things to light as far as religion and politics is concerned though. We are seeing a massive distrust of both for one thing. Well, for the main thing! lol

[Bill]

Buddhists? really, that is contrary to the teachings of the highly revered Lotus Sutra which advises that all such phenomena are mere illusion and to regard them as such.

There is as much variety in buddhist beliefs as there is in Christian beliefs.

[josh]

Buddhists? really, that is contrary to the teachings of the highly revered Lotus Sutra which advises that all such phenomena are mere illusion and to regard them as such.

Exorcism is practiced in most forms of Buddhism and the techniques themselves are enumerated in lots of different Buddhist scriptures. The Prajnaparamita, for example, which is arguably the single most important scripture in Mahayana Buddhism, contains a passage where Sakra uses the Prajnaparamita to repel a host of demons, and the text is still used exorcistically in modern Tibetan Buddhism. Donald Lopez has a whole chapter in his book Elaborations on Emptiness describing an exorcistic ritual based on the Heart Sutra, which is still practiced today.
I once saw a (Chan) monk perform a kind of ad hoc "exorcism" on a woman who started freaking out at the end of a 7-day meditation retreat in Taiwan.

[cerebus]

Buddhists? really, that is contrary to the teachings of the highly revered Lotus Sutra which advises that all such phenomena are mere illusion and to regard them as such.

Exorcism is practiced in most forms of Buddhism and the techniques themselves are enumerated in lots of different Buddhist scriptures. The Prajnaparamita, for example, which is arguably the single most important scripture in Mahayana Buddhism, contains a passage where Sakra uses the Prajnaparamita to repel a host of demons, and the text is still used exorcistically in modern Tibetan Buddhism. Donald Lopez has a whole chapter in his book Elaborations on Emptiness describing an exorcistic ritual based on the Heart Sutra, which is still practiced today.
I once saw a (Chan) monk perform a kind of ad hoc "exorcism" on a woman who started freaking out at the end of a 7-day meditation retreat in Taiwan.

The haunted mansion on the hill that I lived in here in Oakland was once exorcised by a Tibetan Buddhist monk. It had also been exorcised by another monk of some kind as well. Both of them knew immediately which house was haunted without being told, and they both left somewhat skeptical as to whether their exorcisms had been successful. Apparently they were not successful, cause that place was still quite haunted when I lived there...

[Methods]

Man, I didnt want to type this, but for some reason I feel the need to chime in. I am sure I will regret it....
There are demons, no doubt about that! many different kinds and thats for sure. I have fought with them, been part of an exorcist or two as well worshipped a few good ones, among those were various Yeh Cha's (Heavenly Deities Helpers) and Wang Ling Kuan with splendid results.

The most exaggerated and common demon is the what I call "self prescribed". It didnt exist until you make it, but it actually manifests itself into a living creature. It was explained to me that these are made by a black heart and mind, but what takes place is some kind of earth energy corrals this black energy creating this demon. This is a religious belief and Im sure it can be explained somewhat by science, never the less it exists.
Other Demons, without calling them by name are "dark ones", "animal demons", "nature demons", "natural demon", "other world demons", "lost soul demons" etc.. etc...

Im sure this old Catholic knows a thing or two about spirituality that would throw most for a loop. I think its funny how widely accepted a Zues styled Santa Claus God and the concept of Adam and Eve exits but sneer at the idea of demons - lol
BTW - Im not some spiritual weirdo fool, just believe in what I have seen and experienced - Im pretty simple when it comes to that.

[Chris Fleming]

I truly admire the guy's honesty about the condition of the catholic church.

[Andy_S]

I suppose someone has to say it, so it may as well be moi:
It is pretty convenient having this "Devil" on which to blame all manner of human failings.

Personally, I believe in "free will" but in the context of this thread, I suppose am a bit of an iconoclast.

The finest exorcism I ever heard of was the one peformed by Bido Senior. And apparently it was effective.

[chud]

I truly admire the guy's honesty about the condition of the catholic church.

Yes, the church needs more priests like him.

[Ian]

So what of the paedophilia, child abuse and murder?

Those responsible get to be exorcised instead of, say, being sent to prison?