Liver, liver pills, etc

[nianfong]

I thought this stuff was supposed to make you healthier? I never heard of any of the old CMA masters like Chen Fake, Sun Lutang, Yang Chenfu, etc getting hip replacements. Maybe we're doing something wrong.

Well I guess it depends how you train. I did a lot of TKD in my high school years, and preferred to kick with my right leg, and I've noticed through the years that my right hip has issues whereas my left doesn't. We used to spar full contact and hit the contact pads hard, so that's what did it for me; several years of that.

good nutrition is also important. I've started taking liver pills like jack lalaine, and they are a godsend!

Just curious, what's a "liver pill", and how has it helped you?

[nianfong]

I have more energy during the day and they boost my kidneys, which strengthens my back as well. my brother (a TCMD) recommended them to me to tonify my kidneys because I train and work too hard, depleting my kidney yang qi.

http://www.basicsarebest.com/

[chud]

I have more energy during the day and they boost my kidneys, which strengthens my back as well. my brother (a TCMD) recommended them to me to tonify my kidneys because I train and work too hard, depleting my kidney yang qi.

http://www.basicsarebest.com/

Cool, thanks.

Back in the 50's and 60's, there was a proven system for gaining weight and building muscle. And best of all, it worked like gangbusters.

Scrawny kids were routinely transformed into heavily-muscled beasts after just a few months on the program.

In fact, it wasn't uncommon for guys to pack a solid inch on their biceps in just 30 days on this program.

The program was simple: Engage in short but intense resistance training sessions... and eat lots of liver.

Well I like liver-n-onions, so I guess I'm all set.

[nianfong]

my bro said it's very very important that the liver comes from grass fed cows. grain fed cows are unhealthy and their livers are too.
he personally says I should eat raw organic bison liver. but these liver pills are a satisfactory alternate. they come from pasture-fed organic argentinian cows.

[chud]

Makes sense...grass fed would have more Omega 3's.

[cerebus]

Fong, what brand are the liver pills you're taking? Do you have a link for someone wishing to order some?

[nianfong]

already posted the link to the ones I'm taking. grass fed has more omega3's, plus because the cows are pasture fed, they have more vitamin D as well.

[cdobe]

I have more energy during the day and they boost my kidneys, which strengthens my back as well. my brother (a TCMD) recommended them to me to tonify my kidneys because I train and work too hard, depleting my kidney yang qi.

http://www.basicsarebest.com/

Thank you, Fong! I'll give it a try. Surprisingly I get them for half the price over here Usually it's the other way around...

[Bär]

I might try those too. That site is a bit liver hating as a food, and they are missing out. I know what they're talking about - badly prepared liver -n- unyuns from factory beef. That is nasty, but good liver isn't a myth.

Maybe I can get a hold of some bison liver - there are several farms within an hour of where I live. Lucky thing is that bison are almost never fed grain and as a meat it's better tasting than beef (unless you're getting real deal Kobe or it's non-union American equivalent) and certainly better nutritionally. Grass fed beef tastes a bit gamey compared to grain fed beef or plain old bison meat, which is fine if you dig that flavor.

[chud]

That site is a bit liver hating as a food, and they are missing out. I know what they're talking about - badly prepared liver -n- unyuns from factory beef. That is nasty, but good liver isn't a myth.

I agree with you Bar, everyone I know seems to hate liver-n-onions except me, I love it.

Buddy, sorry for highjacking your thread. Mods, can you split this off into a seperate thread?

[nianfong]

yeah I love eating liver too. chinese people cherish the internal organs of animals.... as do europeans. the organs have way more nutrients than muscles. it's mostly americans that disdain the good stuff.

[kreese]

I got blasted for even asking liver pills a while back. All the weight lifters/bodybuilders who actually take them have nothing but good to say about them.

Argentine liver is hormone free by law. They are dried and a lot of the fat is taken out. All the goodies remain, including heme-iron, a more absorbable form of iron (so I gather).

There is a product called Uni-Liver. It can be had very cheaply online. If shipping to Asia weren't such a bitch and I wasn't on a limited income I would have tried them by now. I am not at the liberty to cook at the moment and supplements are a must.

[Azer]

Be careful with too much vitamin A dudes..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/ ... ealth.food

Liver contains high levels of vitamin A, or retinol, which in reasonable quantities is good for eyesight and skin, and prevents infections. But too much increases the likelihood of fractured bones

http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/govtreg ... AToxic.htm

Retinol may interfere with the activity of vitamin D, a vitamin that facilitates the absorption of calcium.

Hypervitaminosis A - excessive vitamin A (specifically retinoid) intake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A

Effects include

* Birth defects
* Liver problems
* Reduced bone mineral density that may result in osteoporosis
* Coarse bone growths
* Skin discoloration
* Hair loss
* Excessive skin dryness/peeling (desquamation)
* Angular cheilitis
* Idiopathic intracranial hypertension[1]

[Azer]

Found some interesting info regarding liver supplementation on rats.

Ths gist of it is here, and this Dr. is mentioned on quite a few other sites.

Liver ~ Mysterious Anti-Fatigue & Protective Factors

Several of the scientific studies by Dr Benjamin Ershoff, PhD, I am going to list here because of their significance in the arena of human health, above and beyond what would be considered normal. He took three groups of rats and fed them different diets as listed below.

1. Basic Diet fortified with 11 vitamins
2. Diet Number One with additional supply of Vitamin B Complex
3. Diet Number One with additional 10% of rations as Powdered Liver

Rats on these diets were tested in several areas.

* Stress and Strength and Endurance
* Toxic Poisons
* X-Irradiation

Stress

After a period of 12 weeks on their respective diets, the three groups of rats were put into separate tubs of water from which they could not get out. The time was recorded to see how long they could swim and endure until they drowned. The first group of rats on the standard fortified diet lasted 13.3 minutes. The second group of rats with the additional supply of Vitamin B Complex didn’t do much better, lasting only 13.4 minutes. The third group of rats that had their diet supplemented with the powdered liver showed a striking difference. One of these rats swam for 63 minutes, one for 83 minutes, one for 87 minutes, and the other nine were swimming so vigorously at two hours they were just taken out of the water and the experiment terminated.

Toxic Poisons

The scientific data here goes far beyond just the research of Dr. Ershoff. Liver supplementation has been shown to counteract the harmful effects of massive or toxic doses of the following...

strychnine (Battelli)
sulfanilamide (Chamelin and Funk)
promin (Higgins; Ershoff and McWilliams)
atabrine (Ershoff)
dinitrophenol (Ershoff)
diethylstilbestrol (Chamelin and Funk)
alphaestradiol (Ershoff and McWilliams)
desiccated thyroid (Ershoff; Betheil)
thyroxin, thyroglobulin, iodinated casein (Ershoff and McWilliams)
cortisone acetate (Ershoff)

These powerful results are quite extensive and details can be found from
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/47/2/289.pdf

X-Irradiation

All three diet groups were subjected to both a lethal dose of x-irradiation and to sub-lethal doses of x-irradiation. With the lethal dose of x-irradiation all three diet groups showed the same results. There was no difference in the number or percentage which died and there was no difference in the length of survival. However, with the multiple sub-lethal doses if x-irradiation, there were differences in both the survival rates of adult rats and immature rats, and differences in all the diet groups.

Adult Rats
Basic Diet 40% survived
Added B Complex 20% survived
Added Liver 80% survived
Immature Rats
Basic Diet 00% survived
Added B Complex 10% survived
Added Liver 30% survived

http://blog.healthdiscoveries.com/?tag= ... in+ershoff

I would be interested in giving these a go, but the potential Hypervitaminosis A is kinda off-putting.

Some other anecdotal info I came across was that predators always eat the liver of their prey first, and it is usually consumed by the alpha male. Dont know how true this is, but interesting.

Nianfong , how long have you been taking these?

[chud]

yeah I love eating liver too. chinese people cherish the internal organs of animals.... as do europeans. the organs have way more nutrients than muscles. it's mostly americans that disdain the good stuff.

My mom told me that when she was pregnant with me her ob-gyn doc told her to eat liver-n-onions once a week. My mom hated it, but she dutifully had it once a week for dinner. Fast forward to a few years ago and my wife was pregnant with our first child; her ob-gyn doc told her to take iron supplements.
I think the old-fashioned method is better.