ACLU's stance on the Supreme Court Heller decision

[Mike Strong]

How is fascism "right wing"

[TaoJoannes]

By definition.
edit I mean, a defining trait of fascism is it's position that "communism sucks".

Basically, fascism is the preying of the state upon the individual, communism is the preying of the mob upon the individual.

It's a matter of "the state" vs "the people" being the ultimate authority.

Both, as implemented historically have been authoritarian and totalitarian, but to confuse the two for this trait is to confuse a lemon for a banana because of the color. Anyone who can't tell them straight probably shouldn't be listened to much when they use them any more than someone who calls beng chuan a "krotty chop" should be listened to when speaking on CMA.

[Mike Strong]

Fascism noun 1. the doctrines, methods, or movement of the fascisti 2. a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppresion of opposition, private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism, and militarism, etc. 3. a political movement based on such policies...

... sounds pretty LEFTY to me.

[TaoJoannes]

Since Mussolini, there have been many conflicting definitions of the term fascism. Former Columbia University Professor Robert O. Paxton has written that:

Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."[12]

Sounds pretty righty to me.

[MikeC]

I dunno, any Communist govt past or present has still had an oppressive ruling body over them, how is that model 'by the people'. Again, Communism as an ideal vs. Communism in practicality.

My 2 centz

Mike

[Mike Strong]

Oh right, I see, - it was the "the mob" that was running things in The soviet Union; yeah, - and it's "hoi polloi" running the show in China and Cuba ...

...


And the example you sited sounds more like the San Francisco City Council to me.

[TaoJoannes]

I dunno, any Communist govt past or present has still had an oppressive ruling body over them, how is that model 'by the people'. Again, Communism as an ideal vs. Communism in practicality.

My 2 centz

Mike

It's the justification and the aims of the particular group of people in charge that matters. Call it a "mission statement". As well as the particular bureaucracy and means of succession.

In communist and socialist countries, the aim of the government is the perfection of society through the use of man's reason and progress, this is the essence of left wing thought.

In fascist countries, the aim of the government is to preserve traditional values and power structures, which is the essence of right wing thought.

Fascist has become common label for any authoritarian regime, but it's inaccurate. Authoritarianism and totalitarianism are the real enemies, the government has to be kept in check, period. Our system is only good because it makes it harder for folks to really get us under their thumb, despite the paranoid conspiracy maniac's rantings. We suffer temptation, not compulsion. Whenever any group gains absolute power over another group, corruption is inevitable.

You could write volumes on the differences and just scratch the surface.

The Pournelle Chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pournelle_Chart
The Nolan Chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart

[Mike Strong]

Oh, - sorry Professor, ...

... I live in the real world.

[MikeC]

LOL!

[Leimeng]

~ One Definition of Facism:

Fascists opposed what they believe to be laissez-faire or quasi-laissez-faire economic policies dominant in the era prior to the Great Depression.[49] People of many different political stripes blamed laissez-faire capitalism for the Great Depression, and fascists promoted their ideology as a "third way" between capitalism and Marxian socialism.[50] Their policies manifested as a radical extension of government control over the economy without wholesale expropriation of the means of production. Fascist governments nationalized some key industries, managed their currencies and made some massive state investments. They also introduced price controls, wage controls and other types of economic planning measures.[51] Fascist governments instituted state-regulated allocation of resources, especially in the financial and raw materials sectors.
Other than nationalization of certain industries, private property was allowed, but property rights and private initiative were contingent upon service to the state.[52] For example, "an owner of agricultural land may be compelled to raise wheat instead of sheep and employ more labor than he would find profitable."[53][53] According to historian Tibor Ivan Berend, dirigisme was an inherent aspect of fascist economies.[54] The Labour Charter of 1927, promulgated by the Grand Council of Fascism, stated in article 7:
"The corporative State considers private initiative, in the field of production, as the most efficient and useful instrument of the Nation," then goes on to say in article 9 that: "State intervention in economic production may take place only where private initiative is lacking or is insufficient, or when are at stakes the political interest of the State. This intervention may take the form of control, encouragement or direct management."

~ That is quite close to the moronic ideology of the American Left.

~ How about this from Mussoline himself:
Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity. It is opposed to classical liberalism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State became the expression of the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts.

~ Communism, facism, socialism, leftism, statism, and their related collectivist ideologies are vile interpretations of utopia that need to be flushed as one would toilet paper after wiping ones arse.
~ Contrary to the stated opinion of Taojoannes, the goal of facist governments has been to destroy traditional power structures and create a new elite based on their own perceived usefulness as masters of society. They have historically been opposed to traditional values. However, they are quite 'pragmatic' and communicate in terms meant to garner support for their citizens.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

The waist is a terrible thing to mind.

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

[Mike Strong]

Leimeng,

GREAT POST !

The only thing I would add, is that, - Franco and Mousoline got their ideas,and their model for facism from Woodrow Wilson.

A rose is a rose is a rose, and ...


... communism, facsism, and progresivism are all shades of the same collectivist, totalitarian ideology that does not work, because it is based on a mistaken MATERIALISTIC/REDUCTIONIST/NOMONALIST view of the world.



Is this starting to sink in ?