the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I know this could be a one way ticket to btdt, but I'd like to see if people can give THEIR opinions on what makes their art, or arts internal.

There are no wrong answers, so if anyone disagrees, keep it to themselves. In this thread I'd only like to limit it to opinions. Everyone has one, and everyone's right.

no muscular strenght in the technique and no blocking.

Jesus you guys, why move this topic? Nothing has even happened yet. What the hell?

Why wait for someone to jump in on the "no muscles involved" comment, for another one to explain that internal is a personal method instead of the art and for a third to say that both are wrong and that Chi is the all mighty ingredient?

That might be fun actually, but still btdt fun.

things just seem "internal" = my $0.02

Why wait for someone to jump in on the "no muscles involved" comment, for another one to explain that internal is a personal method instead of the art and for a third to say that both are wrong and that Chi is the all mighty ingredient?

If you'll notice the thread was about opinion, and thus, there was no room for people to talk shit because It was only opinions that were being offered. Maybe I should have made that clearer.

That having been said, I know that with the amount of nutriders on the board that it was inevitable that the conversation went down hill. The board seems pretty heavy handed in it's new incarnation. I would have liked to have had the oppertunity for the thread to run it's course though instead of the pre-emptive move. se la vie

Been There Done That
The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Same description in the "old" incarnation, so why the drama?

I know that with the amount of nutriders on the board that it was inevitable that the conversation went down hill.

There you have it. Besides, a pre-emptive move before it went downhill is a damn good example on what makes something internal, in my opinion. Very Tao like...wisdom is doing.

fair enough, maybe i'm wrong. I was trying to hear what other people said in hopes to get a glimpse at something I hadn't thought of.

Same description in the "old" incarnation, so why the drama?

This isn't the first time I tried to make a thread with the purpose of hearing other's opinions, while trying to keep others from judging them. It hasn't worked yet, so maybe I have to give up on the idea.

Well, I don't know about internal, but some differences in training methodologies between Systema and Wing Chun on one side and Taekwondo on the other are:
- Emphasis on proprioception
- Emphasis on structure.
- Emphasis on breathing both as a tool (for getting proper oxygen, healing, removing pain) or as a weapon (to cause the opponent to mirror your breathing pattern and then exploit it).
- Emphasis on feeling the force in training, whether you give it or receive it, to get used to it
- Emphasis on slow work, to ingrain good technique.
- Feeling the body connection.
- Moving the body as a whole or separately, depending on the situation.
- Emphasis on mental and psychological training.

Don't get me wrong, even olympic TKD has some of these things, but the work is not as detailed as in the other two arts. The main difference, as you see, is an emphasis on internal feedback and mechanisms.

Now, in a real fight, you don't have time to analyze if you're breathing more on the left side of the chest on through the back. You learn these things in training so you can hopefully apply them better when the chaos errupts.

gasmaster wrote:fair enough, maybe i'm wrong. I was trying to hear what other people said in hopes to get a glimpse at something I hadn't thought of.

Same description in the "old" incarnation, so why the drama?

This isn't the first time I tried to make a thread with the purpose of hearing other's opinions, while trying to keep others from judging them. It hasn't worked yet, so maybe I have to give up on the idea.

Does it really matter in what subforum it is discussed ? If the thread is interesting and people post in it, it will come up on the 'view new posts' list and will be noticed. 'BTDT' is just a label. Let the nutriders put it wherever they want*, the audience will decide.

CD




* if they like

to cause the opponent to mirror your breathing pattern and then exploit it

That's interesting, care to elaborate on it.

Does it really matter in what subforum it is discussed ? If the thread is interesting and people post in it, it will come up on the 'view new posts' list and will be noticed. 'BTDT' is just a label. Let the nutriders put it wherever they want*, the audience will decide.

That's true, I didn't even think of that because I don't use that feature.

I'm realising that it's the word internal that throws up a red flag, and probably should have chosen a better way to say it. I guess I just won the drama queen award for the day, so I'll proudly wear my tierra.

Internal arts are the result of blending sitting meditation practices with martial arts, in my opinion.

edededed wrote:Internal arts are the result of blending sitting meditation practices with martial arts, in my opinion.

I would agree partly with that except that cultivation without the means to use it is somewhat useless for a MA so I think the most important factor which afaik isn't seen outside of the chinese arts is the tongbei 'through the back' skill, i.e fali, fajin, spinal wave, ribcage power, tucking the sacrum, dantian power etc. however one wants to describe it. Maybe I've been fortunate but every good IMA guy I've met and felt could do it. From the first Gao bagua/chenpanling guy, to xingyi, to baji, chen taiji, and yin bagua. The part I agree with is that most of them only had the cultivation gained from their normal practice so they had something just not a lot. They were all skilled and could hit incredibly hard and definitely left me with something inside. The 2 yin bagua guys though on the other hand who had done the whole cultivation route have not only the immense mechanical power of using the spine with the waist but can also, without thought, hit you with the shen. It's what is called and 'even the ghost and the divine (hun and po) will be scared'.


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Well, of course, the sum is more than the individual parts, but what do you mean by "hit you with the shen without thought?"

edededed wrote:Well, of course, the sum is more than the individual parts, but what do you mean by "hit you with the shen without thought?"

Yeah that doesn't sound right, of course hitting with yi/intent which the shen/spirit follows but without regard or clear knowledge that I am feeling it. They only know it is happening from when they were hit by their own teachers, if that makes sense.

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