The Russians are coming.

[Michael]

I ask because the Russians are saying the Americans are supplying arms to all the rebel/terrorists groups.

The Americans have said they are supplying weapons to the terrorists, sometimes to FSA, who whoops, loses them to Al Nusra. Sometimes they supply to new Iraq military trained by USA because we got rid of the previous Iraq military allowing ISIS to grow for almost ten years, and then whoops, the new Iraq military leaves US weapons in battlefield for ISIS.

USA just dropped 50 tons of ammunition and weapons for rebel fighters and it's only the USA that tries to make a distinction between FSA and other Islamic terrorists. https://www.rt.com/usa/319527-ammo-isis-syria-kurds/

Syria says that all armed opposition now are terrorists as previous Syrian fighters who were against the government either turned in their weapons or joined the Syrian army, including some groups who are not in the Syrian army, but fighting along side.

USA spent $500 million USD and can show 5 trained, anti-Assad rebels ,who might not be cannibals, for this effort. $500 million can buy a lotta TOW.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... s-fighters

So, there is no question that USA is supplying and enabling the Islamic terrorists, which also come from statements from McCain and Patraeus.

[grzegorz]

Right but obviously it is no longer just the US who separates FSA from ISIS since supposedly the Russians met them in Moscow according to some sources although it could just be hearsay the Russians are offering FSA a deal (according to more credible sources).

But yes, awhile ago the Russians were saying FSA didn't exist and next they were terrorists and now they are offering an alliance probably because FSA is giving ISIS a run for their money. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of thing.

I'm familiar with everything else you are saying but I would like to hear Wind's take on what country that hand cannon is from because I have seen it used in a number of videos.

Just curious since Wind knows that stuff perhaps he sees something we wouldn't.

[grzegorz]

From the first week of October.

Moscow ready for contact with Free Syrian Army - FM Lavrov

https://www.rt.com/news/317655-moscow-c ... rian-army/

[windwalker]

Wind,

Do you believe the one in the video is not American?

I ask because the Russians are saying the Americans are supplying arms to all the rebel/terrorists groups.

I'm curious and I know you would know.

I cant really see how they could sustain the system each TOW Unit Replacement Cost: $180,000. not really cheap to use nor to support
while its not really the high tech it will work against the armor currently in use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3bVUyJKxpk

2011 Syrian Civil War[edit]

A Free Syrian Army 13th Division militant firing a BGM-71 TOW at a Syrian Arab Army target in Homs, Syria.
The weapon was spotted as early as April 2014 in at least two videos that surfaced showing Syrian opposition forces in the Syrian Civil War using BGM-71 TOWs, a weapon previously not seen in use by the opposition.[21] Such a video, showing a BGM-71E-3B with the serial number removed, can be seen in a 27 May 2014 episode of the PBS series Frontline.[22]

In February 2015, The Carter Center listed 23 groups within the Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army that have been documented using US supplied TOWs.[23]

A sudden influx of TOWs were supplied in May 2015, mostly to Free Syrian Army affiliated factions, but also independent Islamist battalions; as a requirement of being provided TOWs, these Syrian opposition groups are required to document the use of the missiles by filming their use, and are also required to save the spent missile casings.[24] Groups provided with TOWs include the Hazzm Movement, the 13th Division, 1st Coastal Division, Syria Revolutionaries Front, Yarmouk Army, Knights of Justice Brigade, and the 101st Division.[25] Free Syrian Army battalions widely and decisively used TOWs in the 2015 Jisr al-Shughur offensive.[26][27][28]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TO ... _Civil_War

Syrian opposition groups are required to document the use of the missiles by filming their use, and are also required to save the spent missile casings

gotta keep track of them some how.....

[Michael]

Moscow ready for contact with Free Syrian Army - FM Lavrov

After the Ghouta chemical attack in August 2013, Lavrov seized a political opportunity within the pre-text for bombing Syria as a punishment for their alleged use of chemical weapons and he suggested getting rid of the chems to make everyone happy, since that is what they claimed was the problem. It was a good solution to a made up problem and humanitarian bombing of Syria was averted.

Now that Russia is successfully bombing ISIS in a couple of weeks at several orders of magnitude higher than the USA coalition did not do for over a year, and since the USA coalition refuses to join any communications with Russia, Syria, and Iraq in the bombing of ISIS, and since USA and UK simultaneously complain that Russia is bombing the FSA but refuse to tell Russia where to or not to bomb them, then Lavrov is again coming up with a good solution to the made up problem, a solution which also gets all involved on the road toward a political solution.

Of course one reason USA and UK wouldn't reveal the locations of FSA is that it would add to the argument they are indistinguishable from Al Nusra or ISIS because those locations are the sources of attacks on civilians.

Russia has initiated the talks between all the state actors in Syria, which includes the aggressors Turkey and Saudia Arabia, who can publicly refuse talks the way USA and UK have done, or see Turkey and Saudi Arabia defend their actions in multi-lateral negotiations, which everyone knows is the only way to stop the war if they don't want Russian military influence to grow quickly throughout the Middle East since they are the only power willing and able to help Syria stop ISIS and the other Islamic terrorists.

[grzegorz]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u0q5FR-nxxE

[grzegorz]

There was mention of the Russians doing what the U.S. couldn't or wouldn't do yet many in the U.S. don't see ISIS as a direct threat to the U.S. no matter how much the international media feeds us that line, as is this libertarian's point of view.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UgExNQdCMr8

"More war equals more disaster." I completely agree.

[Michael]

It's convenient for the USA to totally destabilize the Middle and Near East in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc., but their NATO allies finally have to recognize the local consequences with the refugees and the Islamic fighters from their own countries, from European and Russian countries, leaving to join Islamic terrorists and then returning home to destabilize those countries.

The USA has had a policy since Bin Laden and the anti-USSR muhjahadeen in 1980 that we could create radical Islamic terrorists and use them at our will, blending with Saudi Arabian wahabiism and now Turkish desires for a new Sulphanate, and this was preceded by US support of the Muslim Brotherhood against Nassar, and the Brotherhood itself was supported if not created by British intel long before.

These policies have reached their conclusion that spreading terrorism and its ideology can destabilize Europe as well. Look at the chaos of Libya that is now a perfect terrorist breeding ground to provide Islamic fighters in Syria and Iraq. Where will it lead? Can Russia allow this to spread to the Caucsuses or can China sit back and watch it spread to Xinjiang?

[grzegorz]

Personally I would not be surprised if Xin Jiang rebels started taking on the PRC in defense of preserving their homeland and culture being that the Chinese government does little to respect the Uyghur population.

My personal belief is that all this strife goes back much further when the European powers divided up Middle East as they saw fit for their own needs going back to the Great War.

As far as RT's claims of terrorism spreading into Asia I don't believe the Bush line that we have to fight them over their so we don't have to fight them over here. Then again I don't have any fear terrorists and I believe terrorists are almost always the result of the direct abuse of authoritarian powers.

I don't believe a few bombs will solve anything as the years roll by but time will tell.

[grzegorz]

Besides...

[8) Your odds of dying in a terrorist attack are still far, far lower than dying from just about anything else. In the last five years, the odds of an American being killed in a terrorist attack have been about 1 in 20 million (that's including both domestic attacks and overseas attacks).Apr 16, 2013
Eight facts about terrorism in the United States - The Washington Post

The war on terror like the drugs can be nothing other than a failure waiting to happen.

Again my sympathies to the military no matter what flag they may wave.

For some reason through out this thread I believe some have assumed that I'm pro-US and anti-Russian (starting around page 40) because of where I live but nothing could be further from the truth, I am anti-war which is what this thread is all about.

[Michael]

The Bush admin. line about fighting them over there was not the same as what Russia and EU countries are saying about their own citizens, including a few from North America, joining ISIS, being trained in bomb making, and then returning to Denmark or wherever and causing massive problems at home.

International engagement is probably the only way PRC will ever indirectly learn better ways of dealing with social problems domestically, if it's even possible for the PRC to learn that type of thing. They are so deeply pessimistic, they'd much rather keep the perspective set to see things in a way that is best dealt with using various forms of violence.

PRC and Islamic terrorists deserve each other, each side completely fanatical and they hate any kind of expression of logic and intelligence because they both recognize that as a threat to their way of doing things. Just now watching a short documentary on Ilham Tohti, the Uighur professor who was jailed for life last year in Beijing. PRC or religious fundamentalists really can not tolerate anyone who can explain a better way of doing things; both of these groups would rather rule in hell.

[windwalker]

It's convenient for the USA to totally destabilize the Middle and Near East in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc., but their NATO allies finally have to recognize the local consequences with the refugees and the Islamic fighters from their own countries, from European and Russian countries, leaving to join Islamic terrorists and then returning home to destabilize those countries.

The USA has had a policy since Bin Laden and the anti-USSR muhjahadeen in 1980 that we could create radical Islamic terrorists and use them at our will, blending with Saudi Arabian wahabiism and now Turkish desires for a new Sulphanate, and this was preceded by US support of the Muslim Brotherhood against Nassar, and the Brotherhood itself was supported if not created by British intel long before.

These policies have reached their conclusion that spreading terrorism and its ideology can destabilize Europe as well. Look at the chaos of Libya that is now a perfect terrorist breeding ground to provide Islamic fighters in Syria and Iraq. Where will it lead? Can Russia allow this to spread to the Caucsuses or can China sit back and watch it spread to Xinjiang?

good points



Drunk on the technology of war, they seem to forget the realities of war.
until it comes home........

[grzegorz]

The Bush admin. line about fighting them over there was not the same as what Russia and EU countries are saying about their own citizens, including a few from North America, joining ISIS, being trained in bomb making, and then returning to Denmark or wherever and causing massive problems at home.
.

What happened in Denmark? I don't recall a terrorist attack on Denmark.

Sorry, I don't buy it. The war on terror is just a recipe for endless war.

Terrorism is a direct result of oppression, just look at the history of the IRA. If I lived in Afghanistan I too would take up arms against foreign invaders just as I would in my own country.

You are entitled to your opinion and you can believe as you wish Michael (as I have always said) but my view is if foreign countries kept their militaries out is Islamic lands (Palestine and Xin Jiang included) then we would see a less issues with terrorism and the Danes wouldn't have to worry about an attack that is never going to happen either.

[grzegorz]

These policies have reached their conclusion that spreading terrorism and its ideology can destabilize Europe as well. Look at the chaos of Libya that is now a perfect terrorist breeding ground to provide Islamic fighters in Syria and Iraq. Where will it lead? Can Russia allow this to spread to the Caucsuses or can China sit back and watch it spread to Xinjiang?

Using this logic the Russians and the Chinese should turn the Middle East into a parking lot.

[grzegorz]

It's convenient for the USA to totally destabilize the Middle and Near East in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc., but their NATO allies finally have to recognize the local consequences with the refugees and the Islamic fighters from their own countries, from European and Russian countries, leaving to join Islamic terrorists and then returning home to destabilize those countries.

The USA has had a policy since Bin Laden and the anti-USSR muhjahadeen in 1980 that we could create radical Islamic terrorists and use them at our will, blending with Saudi Arabian wahabiism and now Turkish desires for a new Sulphanate, and this was preceded by US support of the Muslim Brotherhood against Nassar, and the Brotherhood itself was supported if not created by British intel long before.

These policies have reached their conclusion that spreading terrorism and its ideology can destabilize Europe as well. Look at the chaos of Libya that is now a perfect terrorist breeding ground to provide Islamic fighters in Syria and Iraq. Where will it lead? Can Russia allow this to spread to the Caucsuses or can China sit back and watch it spread to Xinjiang?

good points



Drunk on the technology of war, they seem to forget the realities of war.
until it comes home........

You mean 911 times a thousand? Is that this weekend or the next?