the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Judging by the posts of many posters in this forum, martial artists or not, it appears that people firmly see an "art" form in the UFC ring at work during their actual random brawls. So what exactly is that art that you observe there? Of course, if you are artistically inclined person, you are bound to see artistic beauty in anything you wish to perceive as beautiful, but even otherwise, why is this random exchange of uncommitted, clumsy and weak punches and kicks, and ludicrous rolling on the ground while hugging each other, perceived as a great art form by the posters (I won't use the term MAist) here? Thats just sports entertainment, nothing more.

These are the essential qualities a pugilist intends to develop for unarmed combat :-

1. Body conditioning (like in Muay Chaiya)
2. Basic strength (but without steroids)
3. Agility.
4. Flexibility.
5. Reflexes (state of mind).

Which among these are the MMAers adepts at? Body condition? None. Basic strength? Yeah, may by after working out in a gym (which is counter-productive towards other qualities). Agility? Don't make me laugh at those bulls who move no faster than random people. Flexibility? Kick with one leg above waist, and the knee of the other leg bends as a response. Leave aside flexibility, it appears that they are working hard to achieve stiffness. Reflexes? None whatsoever. Even the natural reflexes that humans seem to be greatly reduced, instead of being enhanced, in these sportsmen?

I did not mention techniques, because they are the last requirement for combat. In any case, "knowing" techniques is not enough. They should be ingrained in the body of the fighter and surface as and when required during real engagement in combat. MMAers know lots of techniques and you might even find them trying to apply them once in a while which are feasible in that condition, but do they really "possess skills"?

Considering the above points, how on Earth is MMA considered an art, let alone a true representation of a real fight?

1. Body conditioning (like in Muay Chaiya)
2. Basic strength (but without steroids)
3. Agility.
4. Flexibility.
5. Reflexes (state of mind).

Which among these are the MMAers adepts at? Body condition? None.... Even the natural reflexes that humans seem to be greatly reduced, instead of being enhanced, in these sportsmen?...MMAers know lots of techniques and you might even find them trying to apply them once in a while which are feasible in that condition, but do they really "possess skills...Considering the above points, how on Earth is MMA considered an art, let alone a true representation of a real fight?"?

Don't you think you might be being just a little but unfair? Sometimes it's hard to see the value in something when principles you aren't familiar with are at work. A fun experiment might be to try some MMA sparring sometime as a free trial at your local gym. If you do go be sure to bring a friend to film it and give us your thoughts afterwords.

Which MMAers? I know all sorts of people with amazing conditioning, strength, agility, flexibility and reflexes who do all sorts of things, bagua, capoeira, parkour, gymnastics, circus acrobats and jugglers, clowns, dancers, wrestlers, judoka, boxers and kickboxers, soccer players...

D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

what the hell are you talking about? you make no sense to me with the above comments. your experience seems very limited, i really do not know anything about you so i can only use the information in your post to form my opinion i would say you should spend some more time with a few more people from various "styles".

what is a "actual random brawl"?

is your contention that a mma fighter such as machada or anderson silva or any number of known and unknown mma fighters have no "body condition", " agility", "flexibility"? are you really claiming that these mma fighters are "uncommitted, clumsy and weak punches and kicks" if you are i say you are really missing something or you must be great.

and the question about if they "really "possess skills"?" of corse they do. what does this comment/question mean.

as far as a "true representation of a real fight" mma in my opinion does not even claim this. it is now and as far as i know has always been a sport. this sport how ever in my opinion gives the "mma fighter" a great advantage to their own personal self defense.

oh yeah and how does lifting heavy things hurt the needed attributes needed to perform "cma" i think "weight lifting" is a part of many chinese traditions.
stone locks, long poles, sand bags etc or only a few cma weight training... + good old hard work like farming or dock workers or construction etc... you lift heavy things alot you become strong i think.

martial art is just a name coined in the XIX century by some french or occidental guy. You're getting lost in the term.
There's no traditional definition of MA as an "art" in the aesthetic mean of the word in origin countries, not japan nor China...

Said that.

I consider someone an "artist" when he know what he wants to do, know why it's not doing it and find the way to do it in an eficient and original way.

Some Mixed martial artist fit in that category

A couple of "stiff" MMA practioners (yes they are both BJJ folks, but they both competed in MMA and studied various arts):

obsession - a compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.

SnowLeopard wrote:You can keep your art of gay love-making to yourself and remain in your fantasies of being a great gay spartan.

I strongly recommend a trip to your local MMA gym, tell them you want to spar. Probably best not to tell them that you do TCMA and think their shit is fake though.

Seriously, it will be a good experience for you.

Matthew.

I smell a troll.....

Here

Fighting isn't an art

Is this guy for real? Surely not, no-one can be that dumb can they?

this is a topic i would actually like to have a serious thread about but it wont happen-i dont mean the 'art' part


ps jaime classic

Maybe it´s a PR-campaign for some big-city MMA gym.

Wonder if the bio is true - a whole year of intense training?.. And I doubt it´s in the Li style at all. Oh well. Amusing to watch.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

Rickson said it once, in a recent interview (in portuguese) http://br.esportes.yahoo.com/colunas/rickson-gracie-resgata-origens-e-critica-mma-moderno-esportes-724.html


"that, today is very boring to see a cage fights, prior to this events my family who created vale-tudo was so different than nowdays. Before we are comparing fight systems (arts) each order, nowadays this kind of events, because the news rules etc. everything turns on an athletics thing, to turn into an athletic competition. Every week we see an new champion...

I need, in part, to agree with him.

Why in part?

In Helio gracie era was so diferent comparing to rickson events did too, it is a (re)volution, change? If the rules came back again, without time, division weight etc etc... Maybe?!?