Interweb Challenges!

[gzregorz]

Whatever happened to the monkey guy who got challenged by the bjj guy from bullshido and lost?

Question being do people lose students when they lose a match?

[mixjourneyman]

Whatever happened to the monkey guy who got challenged by the bjj guy from bullshido and lost?

Question being do people lose students when they lose a match?

you crazy,
sun wukong has never lost a fight.

[mixjourneyman]

damn, that colour was a lot pinker than I was going for....

[Doc Stier]

It has long been my experience that internet challenges generally amount to nothing. What a surprise!

Machismo threats from anonymous cyber-warriors never pan out and, similarly, meet-up invitations made to such individuals by legitimate, competent practitioners rarely ever materialize.

[meeks]

The best bagua person will walk the circle more times than the other person. Lets start a Guinness book or worlds record! Dave..John....start walking.

Man. I just started really searching the forums and I dont want to dig up the past, but I have to say.... I LOVE THIS DRAMA BETWEEN YANG GUO TAI"S STUDENTS!!! So good! I just grab some popcorn and a 45 oz diet coke and enjoy.

I only met Yang three or four times but I sort of think everyone should get together and show their forms, walk the circle and then spar. That way those with something other then quotes from a book or their teacher will be evident. As far as who trained the longest bla bla bla.. Just because you go to high school for 15 years doesn't make you the best. Anyways I've watched videos and seen some of Yang's students do their stuff and thus have my own opinions. To all though I guess its about being humble, training hard and living with honor. Just like Tom Cruise in the "Last Samurai", or was that "Far and Away"? Cant quite remember.

actually Jon, it's the drama between John and the rest of the students. We've a bad apple in the group - not a major divide within the group, so please tone down the generalizations. Also the disagreement on this forum was John @ me, John @ heel_no_up (Namin) and john @ <who he thought to be Mike Juszenas> but turned out to be Namin as well. Basically, anyone that offered a polite correction was promptly told to get fucked, and backed up with a cheap insult.

Here's the one I refered to - thinking he was talking smack to Mike when in fact it was yet another student (Namin) who he also started ripping into, once he found out who it really was. So essentially, it was a case of "those guys are all a bunch of assholes" from one guy that came out to learn now and then.

heel_no_up wrote:
I've stayed out of this but..lianhuan (John) the definition in a dictionary and the character itself may not have had the indepth meaning that Yang Sifu intended. That is what he meant by "similar but not same."
How you say the word and the accent is the reason Yang Sifu (Shirfu) used "Ji'er" the common usage is the same as Jin in most martial discussions.
Granted Yang Sifu goes into way more depth than any book/video/teacher I've ever met or even heard of about this subject, mostly because he was at his school for so long and knows so much.
Also, some of the comments on Youshen Lianhuan Zhang aren't correct. That was the name of the school when it reopened, it has meaning for the way in which bagua is taught at that school. But most people latched on to it and used it for discussions about bagua in general. Ironically it's similar to this discussion where a simple thing like "jin" is confused.
A piece of advice...Baguazhang has to be practiced to understand...no discussion however long...no notes however detailed...nothing can replace continuous practice, THEN discussion about experiences that come from the practice...that is what allows true understanding and learning from a master to blossom. In the 8 continuous years I was with Yang Sifu you came maybe a dozen times and when you did Yang Sifu had me show you things...prior to that meeks should you what to do in class. Maybe now that Yang is in China...clarify with the students who learned from Yang Sifu longer than you rather than disagree with people who have a more in depth experience with Yang Sifu, what he thought, and baguazhang in general.



Hi Mike,

With regards to your understanding of the terms, I guess we'll just have to disagree as well. You can read my post. I swear by it as true.

With regards to training with YGT, I suggest you don't be so quick to state your opinions about superior knowledge. I started with YGT a few years before you even showed up on the scene and after a fall out with Dave chose to see YGT on my own schedule - and only a few times with you guys. When I did show up with your group I found that there were always a few people who were full enough of themselves to think they had to explain to me what YGT was talking about - I would always listen because after all maybe they had learned something more correctly than me - unfortunately, with a few exceptions, I never experienced that to be the case. So don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that just because you told me something that you taught me something. Or that since I wasn't training at the same time as you that I wasn't training at all. It's ridiculous - in fact for a year I was training 3 times a week with YGT and I almost never saw any of you. But I wouldn't be so silly as to say that means you guys weren't training - other people on other hand are that silly I guess.

A piece of advice back to you... it's important for one not to be so presumptuous about other peoples business... until you have at least talked to them first. I don't remember ever talking to you about my training - or about pretty much anything for that matter. Certainly nothing about when I train, about what I trained, about what my thoughts were... nothing. What makes you think you know anything about me at all? You don't and you shouldn't be so quick to suggest that you do.

And by the way since you force me to air dirty laundry on the internet, Meeks never taught me anything as you claim. In fact when he tried once I called his BS and sent him on his way. Which then became the problem of Dave and his buddies talking behind my back. Yang Shrfu said to ignore it so I did - hence the training on different schedules. Were you there when that happened - No! Have you ever talked to me about it -No! But do you have an opinion about it that you are willing to express as fact - I'm sure.

But you are full of opinion and so be it. But it is only opinion and I think you would do yourself a great favor to examine things more deeply and check your facts more clearly before you speak.

You've started a big pissing match without even bothering to check your facts in person - and it wouldn't have been that hard to do if you really cared about the truth either. So now what? Do you want to continue slurring my good name in public without basis in fact? Do you want to see where that will lead?

[CheapBastid]

Not being a keyboard warrior (or one in real life) I've managed to avoid challenges. I've also learned that there can also be negatives to 'calling someone out'.

I recall playing push hands a few years ago with someone who claimed to be a fighter. I had my palm on his elbow and had it in a position where his bent arm across his body such that the inside of his elbow was in front of his adam’s apple (if you can visualize it). He said to me (indicating the arm I had covered) “Well, I can punch you.” In my mind I screamed “No frikkin’ way!” but I tried to be diplomatic and said “I can’t see how that would work.” He replied “Well, I’m very fast.”

Trying to keep this in the realm of debate I went on to say that I couldn’t see how he would be able to move his whole arm into position where he could punch me before I could redirect him with the palm I had on his elbow. He repeated how fast he was. Foolishly (and with more than a bit of pride and assurance in my position and skill) I indicated that I’d be willing to risk the punch to see this take place. He said that he didn’t want to hurt me. I assured him that I was willing to get hurt to see this take place.

He took a deep breath and half closed his eyes… then with a huge burst of energy he threw his whole body into the punch, launching himself away from the palm I had cupping his elbow. He went one direction and his glasses when another. When he recovered from stumbling back, he was enraged and went into a full combat stance.

I instantly realized my error and profusely apologized while carefully collecting his glasses and offering them back to him in a penitent beggar’s stance. His anger was slow to cool, and I lost the opportunity to keep playing and to play with him in the future.

Waking a sleeper gently is (in my opinion) the kinder method. A lesson I have kept in mind when meeting new folks.

[chud]

I've seen a number of internet challenge videos over the years and the one thing I've learned from them is that no one wins.
Even the person who wins, ends up losing, because the whole things just stinks.

[DeusTrismegistus]

I think I want to get into an internet challenge before I die. Sounds like a good things to add to the bucket list.

[Michael]

Nothing you could do in an Internet challange will ever top Count Dante's raid that resulted in death by sword, or likely even come close to tranny in mason parking lot with huge bald white guy powned by small black guy from bullshido. You'd be lucky to top non-existent sticks at your feet in Far Rockaway.

IOW sorry, but it's already been done.

[lianhuan]

Hi Inner_acievement (jon?)

This is lianhuan (John Spak.) Someone told me I should check out what's going on at rsf so I did and found this thread.

Honestly, I'm getting kind of used to Meeks making stuff up about me - for some reason he seems to need that to ensure his personal growth I guess. For the most part I could give a "rats ass" about it, but when it's this close to slander I have to check in and say at least something. BTW, glad you found our rant entertaining. At least the entertainment value is a positive thing.

Whether you or not you take sides in the matter is not really my purpose in writing this. I am self-admittedly a really poor keyboard warrior. And then what are the odds of getting a fair hearing if a forum administrator (as Meeks is) starts slandering you anyway.

But for the record:
It is shocking news to me that there was ever any drama between me and any of Yang's students except for Meeks (and now Heel No Up I guess.) Everyone I knew was always very polite and friendly and I've never exchanged a single unpleasantry (ever) with any of Yang's students either face to face or otherwise - except for the afore mentioned. In fact a number of Yang's students have since become my students - and that has to say something in and of itself. But in terms of drama? Again, nothing that I'm aware of. I guess if someone says otherwise it was done behind my back and I never heard about it. That would speak volumes for the individuals involved if in fact that is even the case.

Does heel_no_up's comment sound like a polite correction to you? It doesn't to me. It's edited, but you should have read the original. Not to mention the fact that I trained seriously with Yang for about 4 years before heel_no_up even met him. Anyway, I don't want to argue about this - it's pointless.


Actually what I would like to say, is simply that if you are in the Vancouver area, you are more than welcome come and meet me in person. Who knows? You might find the martial art you are looking for, or maybe not. Judge for yourself.

You can check out what we do at:http://www.fistsofmysteryandtruth.com/content/blogcategory/23/48/

You can check out my bio at:http://www.fistsofmysteryandtruth.com/content/view/58/44/

We have a free public meetup where everyone is welcome almost every Sunday. Check it out at: http://www.meetup.com/Applications-focused-Martial-Arts/

Last week I had someone drop in that had been studying martial arts earnestly for about ten years - the last few in mma. Before he left he very politely said, "thank so much for restoring my faith in Gong Fu." Honestly, that felt great. Those are the moments I teach for. I hope I can make everyone feel that way.

But there are a few things about my teaching style that some people have problems with too I guess:

1. I only teach people how to use punches (for example) after they are actually able to do a punch. Some people want to do advanced practice without being able to do the foundation practices first. I would find it unconscionable to teach that way - couldn't do it.

2. When people have the basics to start sparring - I sometimes get a little over-encouraged by it and give them too much pressure too soon. But I have so far, in almost 40 years of training, never caused serious harm to anyone (while training.) Fear maybe yes. And well, we had a hypochondriac train with us for a while once. None the less, I work constantly on trying to curb my enthusiasm for my students progress.

3. My focus is on unarmed, hand-to-hand self-defence. I call self-defence anything you would do to save your life. It's mostly pre-emptive mode at our school. The majority of people (as I have learned) really only want exercise, qi-gong, and forms instead of "self-defence." And even more really just want to show up and talk about training and "self-defence." I'm really not that good at the only talking thing or the non-combat thing.

So that's it. That's who I am. I have fans that follow my blogs, teaching, and video's from around the world including many from China. And I also have people like Meeks that hate everything I do as well. How could it be otherwise.

I'll stop here. Hope to meet some day. Actually, I'd like to extend that to everyone on RSF. Feel free to let me know if you're in Vancouver and you'd like to meet, talk, spar, or whatever - all in a friendly kind of way of course.

Cheers,
Lianhuan

[StanTheMan]

Don't forget 'mike'... You jumped in his shit too. Only as it turned out it wasnt the other classmate you thought it was.

Oh, and kevin_wallbridge. You have a hate on for him too, because he had a slightly different opinion that went in line with the rest of the group. According to him you almost came to blows because he had a different opinion about whether internal arts were a complete waste of time (you being the externalist)...

By the sounds of things you are quick to snap at people then later act like you're very mature and everyone else is so childish. I havent met any of you but from the sidelines and reading how you interact, react, then respond, i can only guess you're dealing with a lot of anger issues in your life and are trying to make the best of things. I hope it all works out for you. The guys on ef are really cool people, and meeks seems to be a fairly straight shooter in how he deals with people. I didnt agree either with what internalenthusiast said about your old group (and I'm not the only one to see he refuses to name his connections) but meeks seems to just be one of the few that are open enough to politely address people about stuff.

Anyways, at the end of the day you're probably a really cool guy, and I support you in your martial endevours.

[internalenthusiast]

I didnt agree either with what internalenthusiast said about your old group (and I'm not the only one to see he refuses to name his connections)

i don't believe i commented on this subject...do you have me confused with someone else?

[lianhuan]

Don't forget 'mike'... You jumped in his shit too. Only as it turned out it wasnt the other classmate you thought it was.

Oh, and kevin_wallbridge. You have a hate on for him too, because he had a slightly different opinion that went in line with the rest of the group. According to him you almost came to blows because he had a different opinion about whether internal arts were a complete waste of time (you being the externalist)...

By the sounds of things you are quick to snap at people then later act like you're very mature and everyone else is so childish. I havent met any of you but from the sidelines and reading how you interact, react, then respond, i can only guess you're dealing with a lot of anger issues in your life and are trying to make the best of things. I hope it all works out for you. The guys on ef are really cool people, and meeks seems to be a fairly straight shooter in how he deals with people. I didnt agree either with what internalenthusiast said about your old group (and I'm not the only one to see he refuses to name his connections) but meeks seems to just be one of the few that are open enough to politely address people about stuff.

Anyways, at the end of the day you're probably a really cool guy, and I support you in your martial endevours.

---------

Nope. Never had anything but good words with Mike... made the mistake of thinking heel_no_up was Mike. Sorry Mike. Actually never had a bad word with Naman face to face either until this spat with Meeks online. Never had a "hate-on" for Kevin until he entered into this spat either... he apologized for jumping the gun about it and I accepted completely - I still have no hate-on for Kevin, in fact I respect him more now. Also never came close to coming to blows with Kevin either as far as I know - probably more a figure of speech if indeed he did utter anything of the sort. I think for myself and say what I think, and admittedly, it often makes people angry.

I wouldn't have responded to your comment at all as I have absolutely no desire to continue on about this, but you made reference to some people in ways that pits me against them - I have no such thoughts or feelings and I want to make that explicitly clear. I think most people would prefer to speak for themselves anyway. Let's let them do that at their own caprice.



Thanks for the parting complement. Wishing you success in your practice as well.


Cheers,
Lianhuan

[Kevin_Wallbridge]

I wrote:

BTW, I didn't "make assertions" about your emotions, I asked questions. The assertions I have made have been about my own experiences. The nature of the "attacks" on you may actually have been less severe than your reactions. If you think you are always respectful and considerate of your contemporaries... ok, but my experience is still different. We all build the reputations that we build for reasons, not always fair reasons either. One still can ask why without it being a underhanded and scurrilous attack. Neither Dave nor I are Buddhas, yet I've never seen him just dis someone out of hand. I am certainly able to use acid in my speech and assessments of people, and its not always fair. Yet I still have the first hand experience of you being cutting, snide and dismissive to people you do not know. I experienced your negative appraisal before you knew the slightest thing about me, while you were slagging my teacher at the same time (who you now claim as such an important influence on your website).

I'm not going to kiss your ass, but you have chance to come back with something less vitriolic. Are you up to it?

Jesus John, "he apologized for jumping the gun about it"... really? You still have to frame me as having backed down and said I'm sorry? The way the above post reads you were proved correct and I humbly apologized. You really are a self-aggrandizing ass.

ps: I vote for the immediate BTDT boot and lock.

[D_Glenn]

I didnt agree either with what internalenthusiast said about your old group (and I'm not the only one to see he refuses to name his connections)

i don't believe i commented on this subject...do you have me confused with someone else?

I think you were confused with inner_achievement.

***

Lianhuan, et al,

On that topic of misunderstanding Jin or what Yang had said - I don't recall if this was brought up before but is it possible that he was using a term found in Baguazhang: 真劲 zhēnjìn [ 1 word]- "Vital energy of the body refers to the energy of life. It can be viewed as resulting from Qi, 精 Jīng, and Shen functioning together to create the force of the body."




.