your political views are religious aren't they?

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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby qiphlow on Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:32 pm

ShortFormMike wrote:are you just making an observation cuz I wasn't saying otherwise. I was making an analogy between the way people think about politics these days is similar to the way people have thought about religion.
e.g. their response to criticism of their political view is very close to the way people respond to criticism of their religion.


thanks for the clarification. i thought you were saying that one's political views were a result of one's religious views.
i agree that there seems to be much more political zealotry lately. perhaps it's a response to the increased awareness of extremism in the world.
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Walter Joyce on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:48 am

I believe that my political beliefs are based on a sense of fundamental fairness, not religion or ideology.
The more one sweats during times of peace the less one bleeds during times of war.

Ideology offers human beings the illusion of dignity and morals while making it easier to part with them.
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Michael on Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:20 am

What's the difference between one person's sense of fundamental fairness and another's religion or ideology?

This is not directed at anyone in particular and certainly applies as much to me as to anybody else.
IMO, most people have not closely and carefully examined what their beliefs really are and where they came from, and usually have not tested them outside of "controlled sparring", to borrow a phrase from a thread on the main forum. While I'm not trying to be an apologist for religion, my point is that everyone starts out with a belief system that comes from their culture, be it religious or otherwise, and very few ever look deeply into the origins and meanings of what they believe because we usually don't get far enough away from our culture to be distinguishable from a fish who is unaware of the water into which it is immersed.
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby ShortFormMike on Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:31 am

Walter Joyce wrote:I believe that my political beliefs are based on a sense of fundamental fairness, not religion or ideology.


how many people are going to misread what I'm saying? seems like everyone's replying to the heading without reading the content--moderator included.

or was everybody just making this same point for another reason?
if it doesn't make sense, it's because I'm "typing" with Swype or using android's voice to text, which is pretty damn good by the way
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Chris Fleming on Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:34 am

Or maybe people just believe in what they believe in due to one reason or another like life experiences and, surprise surprise, they don't change their political beliefs easily at all. Maybe people are just not agreeing with your whole main premise. LOL
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby ShortFormMike on Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:17 pm

I'm saying, hey your political views seem religious in that they are like a religion: faith based not fact based, not ever changeable no matter what anyone says, seems to coincidentally follow whatever the party leader says etc.

people keep responding, "no my religion has no bearing on my political beliefs." (where's the pounding head against brick wall emoticon?)

is it not clear that even an atheist could fit what I'm describing? learn to read, monkeys!
Last edited by ShortFormMike on Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
if it doesn't make sense, it's because I'm "typing" with Swype or using android's voice to text, which is pretty damn good by the way
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby David Boxen on Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:05 pm

You get a few people in any kind of organization and you've got politics. I think it might be helpful to start off with what exactly you mean by politics.

Another thing IMHO: beliefs are beliefs. Saying they seem religious is just confusing the matter.
We are not stuff that abides, but patterns that perpetuate themselves. - Norbert Wiener
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby bailewen on Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:22 pm

-argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh- -argh-

What is so confusing about the analogy?

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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Michael on Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:07 am

Let me try and say this another way since the one calling us monkeys didn't understand my first attempt.

Political views are basically identical to religious beliefs because they are the result of various forms of informal, cultural programming received and ingested on both conscious and subconscious levels indiscriminately from authority figures such as parents, priests, and media script readers who are alternately called politicians or anchor men, there being little difference between the two. The political messages are contained within a one-dimensional, bi-polar ideological duality, a sort of linear-thinking mind trap, where you can only travel to Buffalo or to Newark on a rail with no stops in-between and no other divergent lines in other directions or on other axis. This "ONLY BLACK OR WHITE" construct is designed to elicit a reflexive, conditioned response, a Pavlovian reaction to the fear of the opposing viewpoint being adopted. This fear of the other is usually much, much greater than the desire of one's own individual and potentially unique choice being followed. People do not follow their own choices for fear of marginalization by the herd, who believe by some unspoken consensus given to them by their television sets that they're choosing between the north and south track in spite of the obvious evidence they are running in parallel, both leading to the same inevitable slaughterhouse.

For example, although all the evidence clearly demonstrates no effective or practical difference between Republicans and Democrats or so-called Liberals and Conservatives, shown by the ever-increasing power grabbing domestically and abroad by all levels of government, people claim allegiance to one of the two groups, which is merely the affixing of an amorphous label onto oneself, like eating social cliqué comfort food. One of these two labels are adopted primarily out of fear of the rhetoric from the other groups' alleged objectives in spite of the fact that both groups are owned and controlled at their highest levels by the same handful of corporate interests: banking, oil, and military/pharmaceuticals/food, whose agenda is relentlessly moved forward without fail regardless of the color of the pin being worn by whichever script reader happens to be in office between the stage-manged selections of our so-called leaders.

Many people I have spoken to in America, when asked calmly, face-to-face, can not explain in any depth their political or religious beliefs, and will become quiet when pressed if nothing is done to trigger their conditioned responses of verbal aggression, in which case they will reply with strawmen, irrelevant extreme examples, or plain absurdities like the guy who told me excess calories were causing the dramatic increase in degenerative diseases. They simply don't know what they believe or why, which is exactly what Brzezinski described in his 1970 book Between Two Ages, where he said people's opinions would be completely shaped by mass media in what he described as the "technotronic era". Goebbels and Bernays used the word propaganda, as the Chinese also do so candidly, but it's simply mass mind control, brainwashing, etc. through the media.

Have you ever watched a movie carefully and seen many flaws that others did not and then wondered how they overlooked the obvious plot holes? The reason could have been the film-makers were clever enough to install emotional triggers acting at a subconscious level, often reinforced by music, that capture the audience' attention and generally distract them from the conscious level of the plot. Pretty much any David Lynch film is a text-book example. Or The English Patient. What a shite film.
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Chris Fleming on Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:28 am

The most ironic thing about this thread is that the OP is following his own premise PERFECTLY.

Ah well, Mike I agree, sort of, with you for the most part. Here, I'll throw you a bone.


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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby ShortFormMike on Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:42 pm

nice! I love howard stern too. one of the most misunderstood shows and personalities around. I like how during his interview by bill o'reilly he pointed out his audience is more educated and more wealthy than bill's. and that was his free radio audience, not satellite.
if it doesn't make sense, it's because I'm "typing" with Swype or using android's voice to text, which is pretty damn good by the way
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Dabbler on Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:09 pm

Walter Joyce wrote:
I believe that my political beliefs are based on a sense of fundamental fairness, not religion or ideology.


how many people are going to misread what I'm saying? seems like everyone's replying to the heading without reading the content--moderator included.

or was everybody just making this same point for another reason?


Actually SFM I think Walter is on topic. "political beliefs" According to wikipedia "Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true" The definition of knowledge from wikipedia
"Knowledge is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as (i) expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject; (ii) what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information; or (iii) be absolutely certain or sure about something.

Interesting that last one " be absolutely certain or sure about something" since that can be how some people express or hold their beliefs. So it is possible to arrive an this point either through knowledge or faith. So if you were to suggest that someone's political view was wrong, is it because their knowledge is not complete in which case one would suppose you can complete their knowledge (since knowlege might be infinite but knowledge of a defined area is not) and correct their mistake. Or if it turned out that their political view was a belief you could challenge it but probably not change it.
Again from wikipedia (I should make a donation) "The relationship between belief and knowledge is that a belief is knowledge if the belief is true, and if the believer has a justification (reasonable and necessarily plausible assertions/evidence/guidance) for believing it is true.
A false belief is not considered to be knowledge, even if it is sincere. A sincere believer in the flat earth theory does not know that the Earth is flat. Similarly, a truth that nobody believes is not knowledge, because in order to be knowledge, there must be some person who knows it."
So no, some of my political views are not religious because they are knowledge based. However some of my political views are belief based because I hold a view that might not be 100% based on knowledge (and a view is not necessarily a statement of fact). Then there is the problem of the difference between someone's political views who believes they have all the knowledge and someone who"s "political views are religious"
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Michael on Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:07 pm

Hypnosis by LCD Becoming Increasingly Rampant
http://www.infowars.com/hypnosis-by-lcd ... y-rampant/

Recently, several videos of people falling as the result of staring in to the glow of their electronic mobile devices have become the focus of media attention. This trend is becoming more and more prevalent as texting while walking is a major safety concern in cities such as New York and Los Angeles. In a very Lemmings fashion, people are blindly walking off ledges, in to streets, and even in to fountains because they just can’t take their eyes off of the little screen in front of them.
Michael

 

Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby wiesiek on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:26 am

religions and polititic are dead

i don`t belive in death

all above are just maiming constructions /like "country"/
for easy stering
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Re: your political views are religious aren't they?

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:22 am

Yeah, it don't mean nothin', man, nothin' at all! :-\
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