So many Grandmasters appear!

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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby dragonprawn on Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:49 pm

It's pretty silly to cite a English language promotional literature as evidence that it is not a western phenomenon.

That being said, although your evidence is completely worthless,

So if I go to Chen village tomorrow nobody will be calling themselves Master? Yeah, right.

And what I also object to is those on this board who automatically equate Master with big ego. I have known many who call themselves Master who are humble and many with big egos who say "I am not a Master or even your teacher - I am just a fellow student".
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby bailewen on Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:20 pm

So if I go to Chen village tomorrow nobody will be calling themselves Master? Yeah, right.

As a rule, they will all be speaking Chinese so, yes, that is correct.
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby cdobe on Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:31 pm

dragonprawn wrote:
And what I also object to is those on this board who automatically equate Master with big ego. I have known many who call themselves Master who are humble and many with big egos who say "I am not a Master or even your teacher - I am just a fellow student".


Wow :D
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby klonk on Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:51 pm

"Master" is a bit of a stretch, though a legitimate translation if you read the English dictionary's fine print and squint a little. The word "grandmaster" is more of a problem. Its definitions involve rank in a hierarchy, or expertise in chess or bridge, or, figuratively, "A person of the highest competence or achievement in a field: a grand master of foreign diplomacy." Its definitions do not carry the sense of master as teacher.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/grand-master#ixzz1EXUiQTN1 http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Grandmaster

Since very few cma practitioners are Freemasons or chess experts, it would seem to be the last definition that is implied, the one about " highest competence or achievement." Intentionally or not, that is the claim that is being made when someone introduces himself as "Grandmaster."

While googling around for dictionary entries I found out that The Grandmaster is a character in Marvel comic books. Not relevant here, particularly, but here he is:

Image
Last edited by klonk on Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby cdobe on Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:19 pm

Cute grandmaster
Image
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:33 am

cdobe wrote:Cute grandmaster
Image



I question that she is even at the master level of cute... at most she is a shifu... :P ;D ;D ;D *turn of sarcasm*
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby cdobe on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:04 am

mixjourneyman wrote:
cdobe wrote:Cute grandmaster
Image



I question that she is even at the master level of cute... at most she is a shifu... :P ;D ;D ;D *turn of sarcasm*

Image
I'ld play with her...
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:01 pm

I take it back.
She can take my bishop any day :D
most ideas of any true value can be summed up in less than a paragraph.
but it takes thousands of years for laymen to explain it to each other.
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby cdobe on Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:22 pm

mixjourneyman wrote:I take it back.
She can take my bishop any day :D

I don't think you would get a chance to mate her...
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:26 pm

Well, you posted a picture, so at least I can have a rook....


*turn off Chinese accent* :D
most ideas of any true value can be summed up in less than a paragraph.
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:32 am

mixjourneyman wrote:Well, you posted a picture, so at least I can have a rook....


*turn off Chinese accent* :D

Ho la! Maybe you dum guys try mo hard...you do mo betta! ;D
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby klonk on Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:35 am

::) That was truly bad, Grandmaster Mix. Thanks!
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby dragonprawn on Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:50 am

I agree that with the term Grandmaster a connotation of rare special ability is difficult to get around. I am more okay with Master than Grandmaster. But if there was a Master (and you were okay with that) whose teacher was still alive, I suppose you might attach that title to them. It might be acceptable that way - but only to those like me who are alright with some using Master.
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby klonk on Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:00 am

Grandmaster Lobster,

The problem is not the word. The problem is the meanings people pour into the word. To use it as you suggest, in the sense of a teacher's teacher, steps outside existing English definitions. Some use it that way, and I have even seen people refer to great grandmasters, meaning teachers of the teachers of current teachers.

There is no parallel meaning of "grandmaster" in English, though I see what they are trying to say. But does the public see what they are saying? If not, the burden is not on the public to understand they are hearing badly mistranslated Chinese. The burden is on us to use words that convey what we mean. Perhaps in the situation you refer to we should simply say "sigong," and then explain.

Lots of foreign words are used in English, especially in niche and professional jargons. Perhaps we should add one more, rather than trying to force fit an existing English word than means something very different.
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Re: So many Grandmasters appear!

Postby cdobe on Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:06 pm

klonk wrote:Grandmaster Lobster,

The problem is not the word. The problem is the meanings people pour into the word. To use it as you suggest, in the sense of a teacher's teacher, steps outside existing English definitions. Some use it that way, and I have even seen people refer to great grandmasters, meaning teachers of the teachers of current teachers.

There is no parallel meaning of "grandmaster" in English, though I see what they are trying to say. But does the public see what they are saying? If not, the burden is not on the public to understand they are hearing badly mistranslated Chinese. The burden is on us to use words that convey what we mean. Perhaps in the situation you refer to we should simply say "sigong," and then explain.

Lots of foreign words are used in English, especially in niche and professional jargons. Perhaps we should add one more, rather than trying to force fit an existing English word than means something very different.

Teacher-father
Teacher-grandfather
...
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