Re: Tim Cartmell's Standing Grappling, Escapes & Counters DVD

[BruceP]

Giles asked people what they thought of the points he raised and invited folks to comment. So I did.

Anyone who markets and sells instructional material to the general public is subject to enquiry, discussion, and even doubt sometimes no matter whose name is behind it. I don't know why anybody would have a problem with that.

If you're going to train whatever material you train for 'streetfighting', train street fighting. I would expect people training the material to be outdoors, wearing regular shoes and clothes, on a patch of asphalt or concrete, gravel, grass, ice and/or snow - not barefoot, on a mat, in the wide open space of the training hall.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to see the material being demonstrated in real environs and basic context(s). I don't even have to be a streetfighter to reasonably expect that. Even I have enough experience and understanding to know how the structure of the training changes once those elements are added to the mix.

Instead of blustering like rabid sycophants, why not be more constructive? Oh yeeaahh...the discipline...niiiice

[internalenthusiast]

i haven't seen in the above posts an argument against covering ground in this way, under the right circumstances?

a skip involves a transfer of weight, in a particular way?

nothing right or wrong about it. just a way to transfer weight and momentum...and may have some advantages, in a tactical POV?

as i say, i like tim's approach...

but...(skipping) it's a weight transfer mechanism...nothing more, nothing less?

respects...

[strawdog]

skip! nice!

Do you this in boots or loafers? Or do you sometimes wear dress shoes? ... just for realism.

I think skipping in your workboots around the local home depot would be great street fight training. Skip all day long until someone picks you up for a job digging ditches and carrying rebars.

Excellent.

[BruceP]

i haven't seen in the above posts an argument against covering ground in this way, under the right circumstances?

a skip involves a transfer of weight, in a particular way?

nothing right or wrong about it. just a way to transfer weight and momentum...and may have some advantages, in a tactical POV?

as i say, i like tim's approach...

but...(skipping) it's a weight transfer mechanism...nothing more, nothing less?

respects...

Tom, I don't care what people say about skipping through the woods. I learned it as a unifying exercise for training 13 torso methods. It's one of the best movement patterns 'known' to the human frame. If skipping through the woods is how they choose to ridicule, it speaks volumes about them, not me.

[strawdog]

oh no... it speaks volumes... oh god... what to do?

skipping is such a mystery ... nobody does it but the bruce almighty. He discovered skipping, don't you know? That's why he calls himself the shoulder that people stand on.

[internalenthusiast]

hey strawdog,

are there no tactics/moves that your teacher teaches, that involve "skipping"?

i.e., moving the weight from say right foot to right foot, or vice versa, in a "hop" before landing the weight somewhere? and executing?

i'm not sure i'm describing this in the best way. just trying...

[strawdog]

skipping ain't no thing! It's a common thing.

To come in the thread and critique a nice preview of Tim's dvd while offering nothing other than stupid skipping clips and "corn grinding" 10 years ago is a bit of being dick!

[internalenthusiast]

skipping ain't no thing! It's a common thing.

To come in the thread and critique a nice preview of Tim's dvd while offering nothing other than stupid skipping clips and "corn grinding" 10 years ago is a bit of being dick!

well, you may be right it's a common thing.

speaking personally, i reckon i gave props to tim's dvd. i very much like his work, and respect him.

i was asking about the practical application of "skipping" as it might be understood by you.

i am sincerely trying to understand how this bit of footwork might be valued, by both you, and shooter.

i am sorry if i seem to be being difficult. that's not how i mean things.

best...

[strawdog]

Perhaps you should start a new thread on the matter.

[BruceP]

Tom, I've been saying for years and years that skipping is one of the most natural movement patterns humans know. Athletes of all kinds use it for a variety of training purposes. I learned it from an old Wu style guy who learned it from an old WU style guy. Never once did I ever claim I discovered it.

Why are we talking about skipping anyway? Who brought that into the discussion? Oh yeah...

I was hoping someone would get around to addressing the doubts some of us have raised instead of having certain others start in on ridiculing clips I posted 10 years ago, that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Wow....

[strawdog]

sure it does... as you haven't contributed anything (have you produced anything instructional Bruce?) other than stupid skipping clips and here you are critiquing someone's work.

[yusuf]

So rather than discussing whether this DVD is useful for learning skills that are useful in streetfighting vs a sports scenario, or if it would round out elements missing from traditional cma, we have degenerated into .. into what exactly?

[Chris Fleming]

I was hoping someone would get around to addressing the doubts some of us have raised instead of having certain others start in on ridiculing clips I posted 10 years ago, that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Wow....

To be fair, you were the one who said if you have criticisms you ought to put up a clip of your own work. Got street fights?

[BruceP]

skip! nice!

Do you this in boots or loafers? Or do you sometimes wear dress shoes? ... just for realism.

I think skipping in your workboots around the local home depot would be great street fight training. Skip all day long until someone picks you up for a job digging ditches and carrying rebars.

Excellent.

^this has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. you bring up all those clips I posted 10 years ago and then say that I came in and offered "nothing other than stupid skipping clips and 'corn grinding' 10 years ago is a bit of being dick"

Nobody else is talking about that shit. Just you.

I tried to explain why I don't think it's really geared for 'streetfighting'. Is what I offered as an explanation so unreasonable that you'll talk right past it just so you can take the discussion off on another tangent? Or are the good people at shenwu willing to consider what I suggested so they can offer a better/improved product that more realistically explores the material? If not, no big deal. But there's no need for all this other crap that started with you making sweeping generalizations about people who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in a real 'streetfight' lacking discipline. I just didn't think it was really fair of you to say.

*flick*

[Bhassler]

Edited, 'cause I don't need to go there.

Mods: How's about addressing certain individuals who rarely if ever make a sincere attempt at contribution, and who's participation in threads inevitably leads to the discussion going BTDT? It's been this same way since the original eF, with the same bullshit by the same guys. When is enough, enough?