Chris' special place

[Dmitri]

people PM'ing me after our first exchange saying that you are awesome in martial arts but have the social skills of a small child.

Funny things people say behind the scenes, eh...?
How many of those "PMers" do you think would say those things the person's face?
That should give you the true value of those "behind-the-keayboard" and "off-the-public-forum" psycho-analysis attempts...

Sure, his posts may come off as arrogant at times. That is no reason, IMO, to "go personal" against someone you don't know at all -- esp. if he didn't say anything "personal" against you.

FWIW

P.S. As for number of times a post was edited -- means only a good thing, i.e. he wants to be clear and deliver the message as exact and well-formulated as possible. Lack of editing could mean a genius in written communications, or it could mean someone very sloppy who doesn't give a shit about what they "sound" like online.
(Besides, he could take advantage of the 'Preview' button and edit the post 5000 times before clicking 'Submit', and then you won't see any 'number of edits' at all. )

[Chris Fleming]

[snip] none of you on EF know what you are talking about, CMA is really good, blah blah blah..." Little bits of nothing. I mean really, what do you want? People to say they are impressed with a person who doesn't use their real name on internet forums who comes off as condescending and arrogant literally at every chance when they post? Expert or no, master or no, internet or no, you are dealing with adults in a discussion so please act your age, whatever that is. I mean shit I even had people PM'ing me after our first exchange saying that you are awesome in martial arts but have the social skills of a small child. If you have the skills, then share your wisdom, not your arrogance. Time to grow up.

I doubt any of the anonymous supporters you say are PMing about his social skills have ever actually met or worked with Dan. I have. He's a gentleman with a strong sense of integrity about open teaching and hard training. He's an excellent intuitive hands-on coach with a superb eye for his training partner's movement, alignment and balance. That's how he views people who come to work with him--as training partners. I've never met anyone with as much to offer in the martial arts who takes a less hierachical view of being on the mat with others. We're all learning together, is how he looks at it. And his regular students "get" the skills, with hard, intelligent training. The skills to be gotten are impressive--he's among the two or three most competent martial artists I've ever worked with, in Europe, North America or China.

Just because you use your real name, Chris, doesn't lend your posts any more credibility or make them less arrogant. Focus on what Dan really says in his posts, not on your own irritability. I thought that anyone working with Dale Dugas or in the John Painter line would have absorbed some of their online civility, but apparently not everyone does. If you can't maintain a civil tone and address the issue rather than the personal, please leave the forum.

Firstly, I use my name because that is my name, not to gain more credibility. I have not come on here making claims about how great I am, unlike others. I have not made any claims at all to my knowledge, unlike "Dan" (well at least there is a start) who for some reason is constantly telling everyone every chance he gets that he is in his fifties, yet can destroy groups of "twenty somethings" at will. Hmmm...considering how many fakers that have been on EF over the years, and the nature of the internet, isn't it reasonable to ask what a person's qualifications are regarding their claims? Too much to ask? Apparently...

As for the social skills issue, I probably should not have brought it up. Don't call me a lier just because you don't like what I'm saying. In any case, I don't take it back because it was a comment made FROM SOMEONE WHO DID/DOES TRAIN WITH HIM talking about while meaning well and being a reasonable person and an excellent martial artist (which I already mentioned), "Dan" has a habit of being condescending, arrogant, blunt, caustic, etc with MANY people online over the years. The point, and here's the important part, is that the common denominator is him.

Furthermore, if you want to talk about civil tones, please read your teacher's last post on this thread. Case closed, unless you have some double standards rule that I don't know about. Perhaps your teacher could be the master here and lead by example.

As for focusing on what "Dan" really is saying in his posts, I'm having a hard time with that, as in one instance, he is saying (in yet another argument, this time with John Wang if I'm not mistaken) that being able to fight is no big deal, join the club, and in other instances, he is constantly bragging, in a very general way, about how many people he has fought....and others ought to be able to talk about, as he asked me "how many people they have knocked out, how many bones they have broken" etc. So like I said before, there's not really much going on here.

Lastly, if you feel that I am arrogant simply for disagreeing with your teacher, then sorry, I cannot help you. I do understand the need to defend him, but I believe he can take care of himself.

[Pat]

guys, this thread has gotten way off base, for whatever reasons- not important why.

can't we all just get along?










i can keep going with de-rail-a-thon!

[Chris Fleming]

Furthermore, if you want to talk about civil tones, please read your teacher's last post on this thread. Case closed, unless you have some double standards rule that I don't know about. Perhaps your teacher could be the master here and lead by example.

As for focusing on what "Dan" really is saying in his posts, I'm having a hard time with that, as in one instance, he is saying (in yet another argument, this time with John Wang if I'm not mistaken) that being able to fight is no big deal, join the club, and in other instances, he is constantly bragging, in a very general way, about how many people he has fought....and others ought to be able to talk about, as he asked me "how many people they have knocked out, how many bones they have broken" etc. So like I said before, there's not really much going on here.

Lastly, if you feel that I am arrogant simply for disagreeing with your teacher, then sorry, I cannot help you. I do understand the need to defend him, but I believe he can take care of himself.

One clarification, Chris: Dan is not my teacher. I've just had the opportunity to work with him. Nor am I defending him--I wouldn't presume to.

I am talking to you about the tone of your posts and the personal nature of your attacks. If you keep it up you won't be given the option to voluntarily leave the forum.

As for Dan, I'm talking with him about the tenor of his posts. As yet, I don't see nearly the antagonism that you apparently do.

As for the anonymous PMer you like to keep referring to (instead of seeking out direct experience yourself), I know of three people on this forum who've directly trained with Dan and a few others who played briefly one time at push-hands with him. I haven't yet reached everyone, but those who I've talked to are kinda scratchin' their heads at your characterization. I don't like slander, son, and that's what I see in your posts.

Tom, I have to make some things clear to you.

1. Personal nature of "my attacks". Such as? Asking someone who is making some serious shit-talking claims, especially about fighting prowess, expertise, and internal martial arts knowledge who they are? Since when is that an attack? If you would like to cite something specific, which I have not already gone over, I would be happy to hear it. Asking someone a question or a proof of their claim is not an attack. Period. I see favoritism in your handling of this issue.

2. Antagonism. Well it's hard to relate to someone who won't answer your questions directly, as I have asked him a few in this and another thread. Anything more is me holding up a mirror to what I am getting in response. Pretty common on EF. No need to make this the end of the world.

3. Direct experience. Which would be found where, again? Where does "Dan" teach? You keep saying "Dan" "Dan" as if that is supposed to make things clear. "Dan" himself has been asked by others on here who he is, and never seems to want to answer the question. Why again is it unreasonable to want to know something about the person who is making such claims?

4.Anonymous PM . A PM is a private message. No need to go around contacting people trying to find out who said what. I did not go into any more detail than the point I was trying to make.

5.Slander. Like when I said he wasn't a good martial artist? Hey wait, I didn't say that at all. I said he was talking a lot of bullshit on one point or another, especially along the lines of how some people on EF don't know anything at all about what they are doing. If you are already talking to him then fine. I would suggest reviewing his posts. If all that makes you want to ban me then fine.

[shawnsegler]

If you kids can't figure out how to get along, cousin Shawn will help set you straight.

S- and you don't want that.

[Pat]

Ummm, Shawn...i can't decide which way you might "get involved"



or

[shawnsegler]

More burninating, less hardgaying.

S

[Bodywork]

Chris
My Name is Dan Harden. If you would like to contact me, P.M. here. I use my real name pretty much everywhere on boards.
Tom is telling you that I am known by quite a few people on various boards and hundreds of martial artists up close and personal, who have met me and or trained with me in person. Tom has trained with me and he knows others, personally, who know me as well. To our knowledge none walked away with the sentiments or personality you portray here. I'm scratching my head as well, but hey I can proably think of a few who would have reason or cause to bitch. Now that you got me thinking about it, percentage wise, I think I'm doing pretty well, as I don't routinely make enemies in my life.

I think its clear that I wrote a post about people talking about handling big fighters in terms that were more in keeping with inexperienced approaches to fighting (either external or internal) and gave some examples of external managment of bigger men. I commented that I thought it was "out of place" in a forum for internal power as internal power is a huge advantage to a fighters game. In response, instead of sticking to arguing the points- you went off...on me. Then followed it up with even more caustic comments about me here from P.M.s. You furthered that again, in the post above where you misscharacterize posts I have made repeatedly in order to twist them to further try an impune my character. I saw no reason for it then, I see no reason now. I'm a very reasonable, fair minded guy-to a point.

I don't see a point in discussing each others personaliities-well only you seem to be doing that huh? I'm sure neither of us are here for the others approval. I can only guess you either had no subsantative rebuttal to the discussion or else were uninterested in offerring one, so this is what I'm left with. Board protocals-well, most good ones anyway, are that if you have comments to make about people put it in a P.M. or say them face to face. To Budo men,it comes across as more stand-up behavious. For others it keeps the boards clear of childlike name calling.

So OK, you don't like my posting style. Got it. Lets move on. It seems logical that If you have merits to an argument- you discuss them. I see no reason for personal comments at all.

[somatai]

Having met Dan, I can say he is both a nice guy and very skilled and proficient in his art....his only problem is that he is very difficult to get a hold of......Derek still hoping to connect for some training, but not holding his breath

[Bodywork]

Aw Crap...and I like you.
Things went crazy with people coming all the time and my uhm...regular life. I heard you went to play with some pals o' mine on the Japanese side. Call me lets have some fun. lets do it this week or next.