Nice one Michael!

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Nice one Michael!

Postby gzregorz on Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:03 pm

This is the wisest thing I've heard on RSF in a long time.

I've learned in my time here that there's some message board ting jin that's necessary in order for the conversation to be enjoyable for most involved. You just ignore some things and occasionally try and understand other's points of view even if you disagree. It's like sitting around and having beers: eventually you just let people have their say, otherwise why be there?
Last edited by gzregorz on Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Michael on Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:41 pm

Thanks, Greg. :)
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Tiebian on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:36 pm

An add on to this is that like 'free speech' there is also a a hazy line that crosses from constructive to destructive.
In free speech society, free speech is protected and 'free' until it turns into racist, violent, threatening or other 'hate-speech'. At that point the it may be seen as no longer a freedom to be protected, but a social ill to be regulated.

Similarly, letting people 'have their say' also has limits. As a principle, it is neither limitless, nor without necessary moderation.
In this case, on this site, some people would prefer to 'have their say' until the cows (deceased ones that cannot) come home, regardless of whether someone 'lets them'.

So, a valid point, but like other things.. it is sensible, in moderation, not in the desired excess.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Michael on Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:24 am

Yeah, I hear you. I think I get exactly what you're referring to. I want to say this without aiming it at anyone in particular, although it certainly applies to me.

I think the crucial point is when is it productive to try and stifle someone and where does that usually lead? I'm thinking of the main forum where an IMA thread becomes argumentative and what I've seen is that trying to stifle someone leads to one-way communication and often initiates the death spiral of the thread in a repetitive and predictable pattern.

You can't make people listen and there are some people whom you can never make shut up, regardless if that's a good idea or not it's simply not possible, and many of those people happen to be energetic and assertive martial artists who don't shy away from confrontation. There are also legitimate differences of opinion and a wide spectrum of knowledge that no one person can lay claim to.

From my experience, I've seen that trying to regulate people's speech doesn't work, either historically or on RSF, so is there a better way to protect the thread? It can take a lot of effort and time to properly answer or reply to an incorrect statement or loaded question, but isn't that what teachers often do, and aren't many here teachers? Is it really to avoid wasting time in a lengthy or excellent reply that a sarcastic comment is made or is it just because it is self-satisfying to put someone in their place? A person who considers himself in the superior position may write a post that makes it nearly impossible for someone to reply in a polite and meaningful way without essentially validating the condescending attitude of their now opponent. Where does that usually end up? Often in a pissing contest.

The best teachers I know, those who are secure in their position and confident in their knowledge, when they've reached their limit of repeating an explanation just smile politely and move on to the next student. There have been several prominent threads in the past 2-3 years suggesting more politeness on RSF and the same response has been given of having the right to stifle people, based on presumed superior knowledge, in order to protect the threads. It's a form of violence that leads to repetitive and destructive patterns greater than the original "offense".
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Tiebian on Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:57 am

I have not been on this particular site in the last 2-3 years, or ever, so I don;t know about that.
However in this recent situation for example, I think the issue is less of trying to stifle anyone in a conversation about 'gongfu', than an attempt to actually talk about gongfu instead of any individual's personal emotional issues.

That is a tricky subject as relates to your philosophy; to follow your philosophy, unlimitedly to its end.. does not have an end, for when people have an emotional issue they want to pursue against someone else, their goal is usually to simply destroy whatever they are trying to do, such as a thread for example, by piling endless amounts of unrelated, antagonism on top of it. To muse that it will simply 'end' if left alone is to miss the point and pattern of such actions entirely I think.

I certainly would not bother to get involved in even thinking that this board should be anything different than it wants to be regarding 'politeness'. That ship sailed long ago. At some point the choice is simply to post and deal with it, or not post.

As to most people here being teachers, first of all, I think that is not true. Secondly, the issue I am referring to such as completely personal issues will not be coming from teachers for the most part, who don't want to look so idiotic.
Your issue, for example, simple differences of opinion about substance may fit though.
Tiebian

 

Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Dmitri on Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:15 am

Tiebian wrote:in the last 2-3 years, or ever

;D
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby qiphlow on Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:21 pm

before this thread is locked, i would like to mention that i am making chili and cornbread for dinner.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Dr.Rob on Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:40 pm

Really? I made a roast , peppernata with olives and I am drinking Sangua de Toro.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby klonk on Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:54 pm

Happy Labor Day Weekend. I am sipping the official rum of taijiquan and wondering if the rain will spoil my chicken barbecue plans for the morrow.

Tonight: Kraut dogs. Man, I love those things. I was gonna get Nathans but National was on sale, two for one, can you believe it!? Such a deal!

IBTL!
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby klonk on Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:15 pm

Of course, if anyone is annoyed, this bulletin board is equipped with a Less Ling user button.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby gzregorz on Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:40 pm

I am going to have some leftovers.

I'm can't decide if I should have chicken curry or BBQed ribs.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Tiebian on Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:45 pm

Aw... craw stickers, stickier than potstickers but people still love to eat 'em. :D

I am not making any food, I just went to a restaurant and let them make it for me and I use their place to eat and make a mess as needed.
We had Chicken clay pot in wine sauce, Xiaolongbao, Pidan Doufu, Bitter melon, was very good.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Doc Stier on Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:10 pm

What a refreshing derail that was! 8-)

Can you guys feel the love in the room...or at least almost smell and taste the great food others enjoyed? :)
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby Daniel on Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:12 pm

Edited for brevity.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.
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Re: Nice one Michael!

Postby affa on Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:14 am

דָּנִיֵּאל wrote:
Image


preach!
-break-
16, 76, 81, 88, 93
21, 28, 38, 52, 78
7, 40, 56, 73, 87
23, 65, 82, 91, 95
2, 6, 10, 46, 95
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