Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

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Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby Monk on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:54 am

Greetings... looks like Bruce Franzis has sold out the first run of his 11 CD set - 3 Cds on Yi Quan Standing (same stances as Wang Shujin / Wang Xiangzhai)... and 8 CDs that to deal with San Ti and Pi Quan... has anybody checked them out?

Big shout out to Alex / Line of Intent - looking forward to CS Tang's book... the contents look real good.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby retreats108 on Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:43 pm

Thanks Monk, Master C S Tang's book is indeed very detailed and drawing interest from serious practitioners.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby RichardH on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:16 pm

I got the set of DVDs last week. So far I've made it through two of the hsing-i discs.

Initial findings are that it is essentially a video of a weekend course he ran. It isn't a highly planned and edited instructional. There is a lot of talking, which some people like. Personally I prefer to get stuck into the teachings. His approach does feel different to the hsing-i I've done before.

I guess I should reserve further judgement until I've completed viewing the set.

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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby jonathan.bluestein on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:38 pm

I have 3 of Bruce's books at home. I won't buy these DVDs though. Here's why:

1. His sales people are god damn liars - I bought the last book he has written on Bagua and Taiji (which was a waste of time for those who have his previous books - just a re-wrap of the old stuff in a more newbie-friendly manner) , and it was marketed to my email with a "special one-time discount offer". Month after it arrived I see that stuff about to be sold on Amazon for a few bucks less. Screw this... Ain't buying from these people ever again.

2. This picture, which IMO kinda speaks for itself.

Image

I wish I would be proved wrong and that serious people will review these DVDs positively and will give me an excuse to buy them sometime. Going to wait on it for now. In my poor experience, it'll be cheaper later anyhow...
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby TrainingDummy on Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:08 pm

Did anyone purchase the Bagua DVD course?

I was interested in the quality of the content, but found the price somewhat off-putting.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby edededed on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:17 pm

Would love to hear more about either or both!

When I was but a wee college student, Bruce's book was one of the catalysts that got me interested in baguazhang and xingyiquan after all... I think he has a lot of knowledge, but maybe he is a bit conservative, perhaps... or is he extremely detailed in the teaching what he does teach?

Would love to see him start teaching the 12 animals of xingyi, or bagua weapons, etc...
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:40 am

Hi all,

I haven't seen the Hsing-I videos yet, but they are just tapes of the classes we had here in Berkeley. You may recall me posting something in the Events section over the last few years, when he offered classes on Hsing-I elements, and these tapes are the result. The sessions were fun with lots of good training exercises, but as with all things Kumar, may not be to everyone's taste. I liked the classes though and they contributed to my development in terms of IMA skills and sparring. He has spent a lot of time and effort researching Hsing-I.

As for pricing, Kumar has always been expensive and always will be. Not much more to say on that.

As for the Ba Gua and Tai Chi book, it was not his best book.

As for the marketing and such, this is not my area of interest. I am just a student of the arts and I study Hsing-I and Ba Gua when I can. Kumar's classes have always been enjoyable and fruitful for me, and always worth the dough. The marketing side of things is irrelevant to me. When class is offered, I go and I train. Then I practice. I can see why it turns some people off, but there are others who really relate to the way this is being presented. I really have no opinion, as long as there are classes to go to. Tapes, books, youtube etc are fun and can be inspiring, but I personally don't gain benefits from anything but in person training.

Ed, his book on Power of Internal Martial Arts was the best one and is always inspiring. In terms of actual training, he is the most detailed teacher I've ever had in terms of chi and mind training. He could care less about forms and techniques. If you don't have Pi Chuan down to perfection, and can execute it on the spot against full power attacks, don't even bother to ask about Tsuan Chuan, you'll get yelled at (as I have been so often). The forms don't matter to him whatsoever, the spirit, the energy, the mindset and the basic/bitter training that create the gung fu of the form are what he is after and what he teaches. This isn't everyone's cup of tea by any means, but I do think that if you like IMA it's always worth a visit at some point to see him in action.

In terms of the animals, he has taught those privately, but to him they are all just variants of the main course, the five elements. To him there are a million plus ways to express the elements and once you can manifest that to some degree, the animals are easy and simple. In terms of weapons, he does not teach any weapons training in any of his martial arts whatsoever.

Anybody with specific questions let me know, I was at all the classes that are on these tapes, so lemme know if there is anything you want to know in specific. We are gonna have a class on Pao Chuan and Heng Chuan in November in Berkeley if you wanna come check it out.

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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby Tiebian on Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:00 pm

jonathan.bluestein wrote:This picture, which IMO kinda speaks for itself.

Image


Yes it does.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby edededed on Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:21 pm

Hi Jess,

It's all good, more power to Bruce and all.

I was wondering, though - for example, in his paoquan class, did you learn several different training exercises, etc., or was it rather lots of detail in the single paoquan form?

He seems very old school in terms of mastering one thing before learning the next - there are others who are like this, too. (Sometimes we get used to getting everything for free these days.) But yeah, his book The Power of Internal Martial Arts is the one I have - the first edition, though :D

A pity about the weapons, though - I saw a video of him demonstrating some bagua sword, I am sure his students would love to learn some of that, too!
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby gzregorz on Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:55 pm

edededed wrote:Hi Jess,

It's all good, more power to Bruce and all.

I was wondering, though - for example, in his paoquan class, did you learn several different training exercises, etc., or was it rather lots of detail in the single paoquan form?

He seems very old school in terms of mastering one thing before learning the next - there are others who are like this, too. (Sometimes we get used to getting everything for free these days.) But yeah, his book The Power of Internal Martial Arts is the one I have - the first edition, though :D

A pity about the weapons, though - I saw a video of him demonstrating some bagua sword, I am sure his students would love to learn some of that, too!


When I was training with him and from what I hear from others I know who still train with him is that he's still big on explaining the fine details of his techniques. If that's what you're looking for then these DVDs are good for that (not that I've seen them, but I'd assume).

On the website it says that the DVDs go into a lot of detail that other teachers don't because perhaps they don't know those details. Personally though I think it's a big mistake to assume that if someone doesn't talk about something they are not aware of it. In my experience traditionally teachers didn't talk about those things at length because they didn't want to overwhelm their students with too much information and too much to do.

In Asia usually you would see your teacher a few times a week for hours at a time. There was no need to pour on lots of information or try to get your students to mentally and intellectually understand something before their body did. You would still get those fine details but you would get them over time and when the time was right for you, in fact you might even find that another student was taught something differently simply because the teacher would modify it for that particular individual. To me this is the mark of a great teacher; when they spend time with an individual student to be sure that student gets what they need.

Also this way instead of telling the student to first master one technique before learning the next the teacher might just spend hours doing the technique with the student until they got it right. Sure it might be long boring work but for my money although you won’t get the bells and whistles that come with a workshop packed with loads information in the end you actually walk away with a lot more.

In the end the choice is yours. But by being an active member of this board I feel compelled to open my big mouth even at times when I’d prefer to say nothing. I will say this though BKF is the real deal and if he is the teacher for you, more power to you. He does offer something unique and different and has a lot of dedicated followers who have trained with for decades (from all over the world) and still continue to learn from him and there is definitely something to be said about that.
Last edited by gzregorz on Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:30 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby Tiebian on Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:18 am

gzregorz wrote:...Sure it might be long boring work but for my money although you won’t get the bells and whistles that come with a workshop packed with loads information in the end you actually walk away with a lot more.


Those loads of information generally go through students in a very direct path; into one ear and directly onto the internet without going anywhere near their own body or 'gongfu'.

gzregorz wrote:...He does offer something unique and different and has a lot of dedicated followers who have trained with for decades (from all over the world) and still continue to learn from him and there is definitely something to be said about that.


;D yes there is, it's a great business format! I am sure there are other things to say as well, but that one is probably the most broadly acceptable truth. The same thing can be said about a lot of 'world famous' seminar and branch school managers...
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby Samoobramba on Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:04 pm

I have them all! Tai Chi, Hsing-I and Bagua Mastery Program. IMHO they are excellent!
Depends what you want. I like what BK Frantzis teach, so I like also hire resources.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby allen2saint on Tue May 03, 2016 5:17 pm

I'm very critical of the man. I don't think his lineage claims are legit and I don't think he's an OK person. That said, I saw him doing some really interesting Xing-Yi applications that I haven't seen anyone else do that made me think that part of his work might be worth it.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby Fa Xing on Wed May 04, 2016 9:46 am

I'm also highly suspect of his teachings, especially since he comes across as wanting to be some sort of guru. This is my opinion but it seems that this is often the case with IMAs.
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Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Wed May 04, 2016 1:48 pm

I was there for this class, it was pretty good stuff in my opinion.
As for "suspect" not sure what you mean. He spent a lot of time and money seeking out the best teachers he could find, and he trained hard.
As for wanting to be a guru, he did spend a couple of years doing yoga in India so...???
Here's an old picture from his time in Taiwan back in the 70's:
Image
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