the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

which exercise is better for pure functional strength i.e. thousands years of powah?

I personally prefer weighted pistols as I feel they allow you to build balance, stretch out your lower back and groin, and work both legs equally.

otoh, I'm just starting out with barbell squats and I can feel my technique still needs some improvement.

your thoughts?

Well considering I can squat quite a bit but cant do a single bodyweight pistol.... I know which one is harder. I think both are very challanging and beneficial, but they target a different kind of strength and recruitment. In terms of pure martial arts bad-assness, I'd go with the pistols. If you can do a pistol with bodyweight +25-50%, no one will ever tell you you need to HTFU, thats for certain.

Lewitt

I vote pistols. You just have to do something else to strengthen the lower back to compensate for not doing weighted squats.

The term functional strength is being applied to damn near anything nowadays in the fitness world. Functional implies a function. In that regard, other than perhaps it coming up in a form set or something like that, it is doubtful that one will have to do pistol-like movements in real life. Having the leg strength to lift something up or carry something on your back seems to fit better with the "functional strength" idea, plus over time you'll be able to put more on the bar than you'll be able to carry in your hands to add to your pistol.

That being said, pistols will develop hella power in your legs along with flexibility and balance, and all of those three things will absolutely translate into the leg strength to do anything else.

I'd say do both. Not on the same day of course (or at the same time!) but they both certainly have their place and are very important to do.

thing is, I can already do weighted pistols quite comfortably. I'm pistol-ing around bodyweight (72 kg or 159 lb) + 20 kg or 44 lb for three sets of ten.

as I said, I've only just started with barbell squats. squatting 50 kg or 110 lb. it seems to be a bit harder, but I've only done it twice in my life!

thanks for the feedback.

There is no such thing as the world's one best athlete, one best exercise, one best food, one best car... In the end all trainings have to be geared toward a specific use.

That said, when talking about conditioning, people categorize exercises under general conditioning, and sports-specific conditioning. The general comes first. So if you practice Taiji, and want to work on increasing leg strength, first you do standard two-legged barbell squats. When you get strong enough, or if you need to address imbalance between left and right side, you can also incorporate single leg squats. Barbell, dumbbell, kettlebell, one hand, two hands, one leg, two legs..., each has its advantages and disadvantages, to reach complete development we should incorporate them all.

If you can do those well, the next step is to make your weight resistance exercise be as close to actual type of movement you use in martial art as possible. So in the Taiji example, single leg squats would actually also count as sport-specific training. Because in Taiji Quan form training, most of the time we are balancing all our weight on one leg. The entire form is like one long series of single-leg squats. My teacher and uncles have also done modified barbell squats, where they follow the alignment requirement of Taiji Quan (nose, knee, toes aligned, and the heel is flat against the ground at all times). You cannot go down as low this way as you do in standard barbell squats, but it's a better approximation of real usage.

Wuyizidi

http://www.bwculture.net/The_Power_of_One_p/po1.htm

Ian you might like this if you have not seen it already...
the title is: the power of one, functional strength through unilateral bodyweight techniques

lots of good functional exercises with progressions

also has some interesting exercises for the legs but it seems there are more exercises for the upper body

its free right now- you just have to pay for shipping


franklin

That would entirely depend on what your *function is.

Pistols - Work more of your quads and glutes. An obvious balance component comes into play here too.

Barbell Full Squat - Work more quads and glutes with a bit more hamstrings than pistols

Barbell Power Squat/Box Squat - Work hamstrings and glutes more than anything else.

Seeing as when comparing body parts most people have a strength deficit in their hamstrings as opposed to their quads, then one may be inclined to say that power/box squat would be more beneficial to a wider variety of people. In reality, all exercises have their place and there is more than one way to skin a cat. When comparing similar exercises, a large number of subjective factors come into play that make it all but impossible to give a generalized response. Limb-length, joint health, strength deficits/training needs, training level, immediate goals, long term goals, personal taste/preference, and so on will all shade an answer about which one is better. In fact, there really is no answer to "which one is better?". It's really only "which one is better for me?".

Also keep in mind that each of these is a skill. To a person who does mostly barbell squatting, pistols will seem a lot harder when first trying them and vice-versa. Neural-motor pathways (aka "muscle memory") for that movement is not refined, and you'll always be thinking about it instead of just being able to do it. You'll have to learn the skill better before strength gained from one will have significant carry over in the performance of the other skill.

My $.02.

apples and oranges. both have a place depending on the goal.

Neither has much to do with IMA though, IMHO.

I disagree. Yang Taiji is all about getting on 1 leg, as is much of xingyi. Pistols are exactly that.

Lewitt

And while this may be hard to believe from some here, barbell squats have helped me with my double palm change. Helped me with my flexibility quite a bit to get into and out of the low (I don't know what to call it) horse position and into the next movement.

It all depends on what you want to develop..As been stated here before they all have there place..You could do full front squats(you build a ton of power coming out of the whole) There is the Zelcher squat which is really a true strong man type lift..The traditional full back squat which also has great benefits.. You may be more interested in weighted step-ups though if you really like pistols..They are similar and work hammys and quads(if you take a large enough step). I also wouldn't only use the squat to develop the leg..how about some traditional deadlifts or Keystone(aka romanian) deadlifts to ensure full leg development.. Yet, if power is what you want nothing beats Olympic weightlifting! Weightlifters are known to have tonnes of power and some of the best flexibility and strength.

Chris Fleming wrote:it is doubtful that one will have to do pistol-like movements in real life.

try climbing something. often you have to step up onto something about waist height, maybe with a heavy pack on. if you spend a lot of time outdoors then squatting also becomes extremely practical for a lot of general activities.

TaoBoxer wrote:I disagree. Yang Taiji is all about getting on 1 leg, as is much of xingyi. Pistols are exactly that.

Lewitt

Could you maybe explain what you mean? From what I remember of Yang Tai chi there is only one single 1 leg posture in the 24 set, and a couple in some of the sword forms, so I really don't get what you mean here. I don't know Xingyi at all so I can't comment. Also from a martial perspective it does seem somewhat counter-intuitive to want to stand on one leg.