Some IMA Applications from Bas Rutten

[Leishen]

Very good post and a very cool position to take.

Thanks Chris.

I think when it comes to the discussion of MMA, all that's being called for is simply the kind of respect that IMA practitioners want for themselves, without the instant kneejerk denigration of it as soon as someone shows an example of something in goodwill

Of course.
Just in Greece, things were and still are in many cases not very polite or respectful from the MMA group and mostly from the BJJ guys.
I am not saying that all of them now are like that, however some years ago their main way for advertising their style was with very huge insults to the general TMA community in Greece. Real bad attidute. And most of the times from young people who happened to be trainers and who had NO previous experience in anything traditional whatsoever. And still that attitude exists till these days. Not to say that the "traditional" MA people in Greece did their best to honor their traditions of course.
Things in my country were always strange in every aspect. Martial arts is no exception to this.

[nianfong]

I sweat when my qi starts flowing.
Have you read the taichi classics? The first line of zhang san feng's treatise:
一舉動周身俱要輕靈, 尤須貫串，氣宜鼓盪，神門宜斂
when you first move your body must be light, must move like strands of pearls, your qi must be boiling, your shen must be directed inward.

Your qi must be boiling. This usually makes you sweat.

-Fong

[Robinhood]

I sweat when my qi starts flowing.
Have you read the taichi classics? The first line of zhang san feng's treatise:
一舉動周身俱要輕靈, 尤須貫串，氣宜鼓盪，神門宜斂
when you first move your body must be light, must move like strands of pearls, your qi must be boiling, your shen must be directed inward.

Your qi must be boiling. This usually makes you sweat.

-Fong

Well if you think that's what it means, try it and see if it works.

I don't see anyone else interrupting it that way, I have heard the term used when they say you have to stand for a certain amount of time for the chi to start doing its thing akin to boiling water takes time, but not taken literally.

In the early stages of standing you will sweat like a pig, but that will go away when your chi starts flowing, it probably happens because the chi is so restricted it makes the body work real hard to try and push it through the restricted paths.

But that sweating should go away as your chi flows better.

[Michael]

Robinhood, what you say sounds like your rationalization and regurgitation of excuses your teacher gave you of why you don't need to work hard. I'm sure it's a very good repeat business paradigm.

[Robinhood]

Robinhood, what you say sounds like your rationalization and regurgitation of excuses your teacher gave you of why you don't need to work hard. I'm sure it's a very good repeat business paradigm.

Nothing to do with teacher, it is just fact. If you haven't tried it or developed it with good results, you are just assuming something you don't have any experience with.

External is hard work physically, internal is hard work internally not externally, to develop internal is a lot harder than external, not harder physically but mentally harder, and most people will not do it, it is usually harder for someone to stand and do nothing than to practice drills. (well it is not just doing nothing,things have to be done with certain condition or else results don't come)

[Wanderingdragon]

Robin what is the art you study?

[Robinhood]

Robin what is the art you study?

I would say the internal is a form along the way of "Wang" , with application and training using Yang, Chen, Wu Tai-Chi along with soft style Wing Chung, core.

[Wanderingdragon]

Oh?! OK ...I'm out

[johnwang]

maybe your stance is to low and you are using muscles rather than intention, you should raise your stance to a level that does not cause your muscles to stiffen up and strain, then you will not sweat.

Ya, you guys would like to know about the 4 ounces, you have to learn to not sweat first.

When you have reached to the highest level of ZZ, you don't need to stand. You can lay down on the bed and use your legs to drill Pi Chuan. You don't need any movement. As long as you can feel it, that should be enough.

The highest level of training is to use your mind to train and not to use your body to train. The question is, "Have you reached to that level yet?"

[Wanderingdragon]

Robin what is the art you study?

I would say the internal is a form along the way of "Wang" , with application and training using Yang, Chen, Wu Tai-Chi along with soft style Wing Chung, core.

Isn't it obvious

[Simon]

haha awesome.

[johnwang]

But that sweating should go away as your chi flows better.

I think you will need to see a doctor.
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What It Means When You Do Not Sweat

If you’re not sweating during your workouts, it may be due to a variety of factors. At the most extreme, those who do not sweat, even in intense temperatures, may be suffering from a condition called anhidrosis. This condition is problematic because it can lead to overheating, dizziness, a rash and even fainting. If you are working out intensely and are still not sweating at all, you might want to consult a physician to determine the cause.

[beegs]

a quick video clip could end the discussion

[Chris McKinley]

Robinhood,

If you can't even specify what it is you're training, you ought to know that your credibility is, shall we say, undermined just a bit. Especially if you join the board and immediately begin lecturing and condescending people with far more expertise and experience than you. And that's in addition to the fact that you still won't even name your teacher on a forum where you can pretty much name any skilled teacher you want and that person's name is likely already fairly to very familiar to the other posters.

I would say the internal is a form along the way of "Wang" , with application and training using Yang, Chen, Wu Tai-Chi along with soft style Wing Chung, core.

"Wang" who, exactly? Yang, Chen and Wu styles of Taijiquan are very different from one another, at least to the members of this board, and do not represent a single recognizable approach. Further, mixing any of them, nevermind all of them, with Wing Chun (no "g" on the end) might be fun and even useful, but it doesn't represent a truly fully internal system by any stretch, further undermining your credibility to lecture/condescend us on the internal arts. And that's of course in addition to the fact that you are pretty much making up the idea of a soft style Wing Chun. Wing Chun's variants are also fairly familiar to us, so it ought to be quite easy for you to specify which of them you train.

At this point, due to the whole of your various comments, you've likely lost sufficient credibility with most if not all of this board to continue lecturing us as if you were any kind of knowledgeable authority about the real usage and practice of the internal martial arts. The best you can probably muster is to come across as an exuberant new convert to IMA (or at least to whatever hybrid blend of stuff you do that might include some IMA), and perhaps just a little overzealous to defend the IMA and even to promote it as superior. Many of us have probably been in that position before in our development, so it's not an unpardonable sin, so to speak, but the lecturing really needs to cease immediately if you wish to ultimately gain any kind of real credibility here. You're not talking to noobs who are unfamiliar with the internal arts here on this forum. There is a chance that some of us have vastly more experience in the internal arts than your own teacher does, so condescension of the type you've exhibited is not only unwarranted, it's coming off as a bit humorous at your expense. Maybe it's time to dial it back a little.

[Robinhood]

Robinhood,

If you can't even specify what it is you're training, you ought to know that your credibility is, shall we say, undermined just a bit. Especially if you join the board and immediately begin lecturing and condescending people with far more expertise and experience than you. And that's in addition to the fact that you still won't even name your teacher on a forum where you can pretty much name any skilled teacher you want and that person's name is likely already fairly to very familiar to the other posters.

I would say the internal is a form along the way of "Wang" , with application and training using Yang, Chen, Wu Tai-Chi along with soft style Wing Chung, core.

"Wang" who, exactly? Yang, Chen and Wu styles of Taijiquan are very different from one another, at least to the members of this board, and do not represent a single recognizable approach. Further, mixing any of them, nevermind all of them, with Wing Chun (no "g" on the end) might be fun and even useful, but it doesn't represent a truly fully internal system by any stretch, further undermining your credibility to lecture/condescend us on the internal arts. And that's of course in addition to the fact that you are pretty much making up the idea of a soft style Wing Chun. Wing Chun's variants are also fairly familiar to us, so it ought to be quite easy for you to specify which of them you train.

At this point, due to the whole of your various comments, you've likely lost sufficient credibility with most if not all of this board to continue lecturing us as if you were any kind of knowledgeable authority about the real usage and practice of the internal martial arts. The best you can probably muster is to come across as an exuberant new convert to IMA (or at least to whatever hybrid blend of stuff you do that might include some IMA), and perhaps just a little overzealous to defend the IMA and even to promote it as superior. Many of us have probably been in that position before in our development, so it's not an unpardonable sin, so to speak, but the lecturing really needs to cease immediately if you wish to ultimately gain any kind of real credibility here. You're not talking to noobs who are unfamiliar with the internal arts here on this forum. There is a chance that some of us have vastly more experience in the internal arts than your own teacher does, so condescension of the type you've exhibited is not only unwarranted, it's coming off as a bit humorous at your expense. Maybe it's time to dial it back a little.

Gee, I thought we were talking about sweating !,

I am sure some people know what I am talking about, if what I say does not seem right to you, then ignore it.

I am not selling anything only passing on experiences in application of internal arts.

Internal is the engine you can use any style you want, I think the finger pointing at the moon applies here.

If you want to start debating about instructors and so called experience, that is the finger, I will look to the moon.

Now if I am going to quick for you, I am sorry, maybe you are thinking to much with your ego and are just here to boast of your experience, you might have a lot of experience, but is it more external than internal ?, it sounds like it is from my view.

I really don't care if you think I have credit, I know. If you want proof you won't find it in words, words will give you confirmation of experience, if you have not experienced someone that does not need to sweat to apply structure then that will not confirm anything for you.

This is my experience, for internal, the less muscle you use, the more chi flows and the stronger you can become. If that does not sound right in your book, you are practicing something different from me. You can practice any way you want and you will, I am just sharing here.

As far as Wing Chung, yes there is soft WC, it is rare but around, and it is handed down from Leung Shun, and Wang is the Wang that challenged everybody in the early 1900,s. As far as Tai Chi , they all came from the same source and share the same engine at there core.