Some IMA Applications from Bas Rutten

[Mello]

Andy's starting to get into the kind of thing I advocate. Learn how to really beat dat azz up front. Get better at it for a few years via hardcore training to whatever level your needs require. Then, unless you're a pro, go out and enjoy your life and quit worrying about martial artsy crap. Just maintain occasionally and you'll still be able to beat the silk out of any 8-hour/day guys you care to try. As you're doing all this, begin the lifelong slow process of building real internal skills in no particular hurry. Once you get to where you'd rather go on a camping trip with the family than compete in the old farts category in a sport tourney, you'll still have all your badassery on tap if you're in relatively decent shape, plus you'll have all the extra benefits of what the internal arts offer, both in fighting and in living large.

I think this is a fantastic post.

[kreese]

There is no internal or external in terms of physiology, it's all connected. Now there are training methods with certain goals, and whether or not they are efficient at meeting those goals.

Bas uses a non-standard MMA stance, as does Anderson Silva. You are seeing people with a traditional martial arts background kicking champions in the face for KOs. You can't even see past the MMA part, you are two step behind because that is all ji ben gong for ANY fighter, regardless of style.

Know your enemy. Many a kung fu person has been humiliated thinking the same stuff here. Shall we draw up those clips? Hmmm?

Theory:



Application:



What people then call "bad judo" comes next.

Make up your mind, is judo good or bad? There can't be a bad-bad...Chen Ziqiang and one of CXW's disciples go at it. These techniques are all in the curriculum, there are single-movement and partner practices:



The guy getting tossed around knows the internal, so much so that he can modify and teach Gao bagua's tian gan, but I guess CXW made him take that clip down.

[kreese]

Is this old man internal? He does Silat. Because if he never trained internal explicitly, he should not be able to have any core internal qualities:

[beegs]

Professional fighting at an elite level, is merely the school of hard knocks, and as the saying goes, "experience is a great teacher, but it's a fool who goes to the school".

the streets are a school of hard knocks, pro fighting is graduate school.

[beegs]

i would love to see some bg name che guys against actual grapplers like big name judo or division 1 college wrestlers.

i had seen the 1 clip with a wrestler against chen bing that was cool but tha wrestler stayed all up top,

are their any cool ones you know of against what was mentioned, would be cool to check out

[Wanderingdragon]

No it's just legal and regulated and you get paid, the people, technique, and general atmosphere is the same, the winner still gets the chick and the beer.

[gzregorz]

Robinhood, who is your teacher? This is not a challenge, but you keep speaking highly of a certain someone. Would you care to share?

Not someone most people would would have heard of, and not someone that is looking for fame or recognition.

I think the best people you will not see on you tube, unless someone catches them by mistake, unless they are trying to promote themselves, because they want to sell you something or have an ego problem.

This doesn't make any sense. So if you put your teacher on youtube because they want to pass on the art they know all of sudden they are nothing?

[internalenthusiast]

re: this clip. i seem to remember someone translating what CXW says at the beginning as something like "you can attack me, and i won't try to attack you."

i may be mistaken in my memory, or understanding. and i have no vested interest in defending CXW at all.

perhaps someone who understands the language could either affirm, or correct my memory/understanding.

all i'm trying to say is, i can't take that clip as an all out contest, on any level. and, on the internet (the internet being what it is), i think some maybe have taken it in that direction.

if i am indeed correct, i've felt a bit bad for CXW, having such a clip on the internet, and perhaps the clip being interpreted that way, by some people.

my comment is in *no* way aimed at you, kreese.

just that my understanding of the clip has been different, in context, from how i've understood some people taking it. as i've observed comments over the past period of time.

respects to all...

[Robinhood]

Robinhood, who is your teacher? This is not a challenge, but you keep speaking highly of a certain someone. Would you care to share?

Not someone most people would would have heard of, and not someone that is looking for fame or recognition.

I think the best people you will not see on you tube, unless someone catches them by mistake, unless they are trying to promote themselves, because they want to sell you something or have an ego problem.

This doesn't make any sense. So if you put your teacher on youtube because they want to pass on the art they know all of sudden they are nothing?

You will not learn anything worthwhile from you tube, or from seminars. You can learn low level imitation , but to really learn takes a long time and proper training, which you will not get from a video or seminars.

[Robinhood]

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So


The guy getting tossed around knows the internal, so much so that he can modify and teach Gao bagua's tian gan, but I guess CXW made him take that clip down.

The guy getting tossed looks like a wrestler. I don't see any internal stabilization, look at the little guy he is doing internal. The bigger guy is just trying to get external leverage points.

[gzregorz]

You will not learn anything worthwhile from you tube, or from seminars. You can learn low level imitation , but to really learn takes a long time and proper training, which you will not get from a video or seminars.

Not entirely true. It depends on the kind of information you are trying to get, if you're trying to learn a whole system then yes obviously I agree with you that videos and one seminar won't give you that. But if you do a system and know a system then videos can help you exlpore other aspects of that system. For example when I see Su Dong Chen I see basically the same entry each time, when I see Igor Yakimov do his sambo takedowns I see the same entry, and even my own teacher has his particular entry down to a science, these are things which even in person you probably wouldn't see.

If this is what you meant I understand. But the idea that if someone is a well known teacher somehow discredits them as someone who just wants to make a quick buck just doesn't make any sense (unless they're somehow in a situation where they don't need the money). I met all types of teachers in the West and in the East and some are good teachers and some are not but everyone wants to get paid something even if it's not money. In fact even in situations where you don't pay, you're actually probably paying the most in what is expected of you down the line.

[Robinhood]

You will not learn anything worthwhile from you tube, or from seminars. You can learn low level imitation , but to really learn takes a long time and proper training, which you will not get from a video or seminars.

Not entirely true. It depends on the kind of information you are trying to get, if you're trying to learn a whole system then yes obviously I agree with you that videos and one seminar won't give you that. But if you do a system and know a system then videos can help you exlpore other aspects of that system. For example when I see Su Dong Chen I see basically the same entry each time, when I see Igor Yakimov do his sambo takedowns I see the same entry, and even my own teacher has his particular entry down to a science, these are things which even in person you probably wouldn't see.

If this is what you meant I understand. But the idea that if someone is a well known teacher somehow discredits them as someone who just wants to make a quick buck just doesn't make any sense (unless they're somehow in a situation where they don't need the money). I met all types of teachers in the West and in the East and some are good teachers and some are not but everyone wants to get paid something even if it's not money. In fact even in situations where you don't pay, you're actually probably paying the most in what is expected of you down the line.

What I meant, is you can copy the outside, which are just external movement, neither here nor there, but you won't ever get is the internal engine that really needs to be there if you really want get somewhere. But if you are just playing with someone with no internal engine these videos will probably help you at that level.

But there do reinforce aspects of internal application if you can see them being used, like the video of the little guy tossing the bigger guy around.

I have in the past been to some of these so-called internal guys seminars, they were just doing external stuff and teaching the same. The ones that actually teach you something worthwhile are not doing seminars, or rarely and have other income.

[gzregorz]

So having two jobs makes them better at the internal stuff?

So if your teacher loses his job that mean he loses all his internal power too?

[Chris McKinley]

Ya know...it's curious that here recently, it seems we've seen a return to the kind of armchair/keyboard warrior statements we used to see about ten years ago during the whole MMA/TMA flame wars, where advocates and fans of IMA have to make ignorant, theoretical, absurd or sometimes blatantly dishonest claims and statements either about what a "real" IMA guy would do in a given situation, or in running down/belittling something depicted from MMA, or both.

Having been one of the staunch defenders of the combat merits of TMA back then against what were often self-promoting marketing gimmick statements denigrating TMA by proponents of UFC/NHB/MMA, it was still apparent that most of the folks arguing for/from the TMA side of things were essentially talking completely out of their asses, with very little to absolutely zero actual combat experience of their own from which to argue. The whole thing of, "Well, I just wouldn't get taken down" was fairly quickly shown to be fallacious and absurd, and eventually even the world of TMA acknowledged the fallacy of the claim.

Yet here we are ten years later, with the MMA crowd essentially having moved on and left the TMA folks to do whatever it is they're going to do, and mostly recognizing them as irrelevant to most discussions of modern combat. Sadly, we are starting to see a return of the kind of ignorant and inexperienced statements running down MMA that we all thought had mostly been either resolved or rendered moot by this point. Things like "MMA is low level....IMA is where all the true skill is at", crap like that.

Either some folks still haven't got out and about enough to experience what's actually out there and are limited by their own inexperience to remarking on the shadows on Plato's cave wall, or they have started to rekindle a certain insecure and petty jealousy about the relatively much greater success that MMA has enjoyed since then. Either way, it's kind of both tired and embarrassing.

If you're a fan of what you do, do it. Make no apologies about what you find great about it. But remember, there's no actual necessity to run down somebody else's preferred method of getting there in order to make your own stuff look more combat viable, especially when the weight of the available evidence is so heavily in favor of that which you are running down.

[gzregorz]

I think Chen's comment was you can try anything you want.

In my book it's far from an actual challenge though, now if he threw or dropped Chen that would be another story.