Empty Force Masters - frauds or geniuses?

[Fubo]

- They manage to attract hoards of students
- Charge huge amounts of money for classes, seminars and retreats, and plenty of people pay the fees
- Manage to do all this with no contact, ultimately receiving no physical threat to themselves
- Receive titles like ultimate grand master guru etc... and students treat them like gods


In a sense this embodies the Judo principle of "Minimum effort, maximum effect".

[jpaton]

not to answer your question with a question but...how is someone who claims to be able to use empty force to defend yourself any worse then the multitude of schools that don't actually teach you how to fight? to answer your question it probably depends on the teacher. some people are probably complete frauds and some are just blindly doing what they were taught others probably use it as one of many training techniques but have other techniques for training fighting.

[shock and awe]

empty force master

[Bao]

Fubo - you should be a bit careful so the admin doesn't use this one on you:

[Fubo]

Hey, hey, now, it was merely a light hearted joke. I felt that the folk around here share a similar sense of humor about this kind of stuff.

[Mike Strong]

"Fubo" or Whatever Your Real Name Is,

Empty Force is an integral part of my training.

The fruits of that training have served me well.

You think it's a joke.

That is fine with me.

"Fubo".

... and by the way :


* My teacher does not charge huge amounts of money, - in fact, ( ) my teacher paid my expences on our last trip to China.

*My teacher has only about a dozen students who attend regular classsess.

* Training Empty Force requires intense physical contact that results in bruising, - and we wear industrial back braces in order to avoid lower back injuries ( ruptured disks).

* I call my teacher by his first name, as do most of his students; although some students who came to him as paitients call him "Doctor", ( and some of the Chinese students refer to him as Shirfu). But most of the time we just hang out like friends; so unless you were observing us at the end of a group meditation or a Vajrayana ceremony, you would never guess that my teacher held some kind of special status.

So, "Fubo" , you see, - you mock that which you do not understand.

[Chris Fleming]

WoW some of you guys are taking this very seriously.

[Doc Stier]

By way of offering a somewhat different perspective on this subject, "empty force" technique is based on the belief that the core power and force of intrinsic energy can be transmitted or projected outwardly to a specific target without using a physical medium of transfer. This concept, therefore, implies the sole use of mental intention combined with psychic projection to willfully direct energy to the target.

Although such skills are certainly possible, few individuals actually possess the highly developed mental abilities needed to do so or the extraordinary control of a large enough volume of energy necessary to do so. Thus, in one sense, those who really are capable of such skills do in fact express a certain kind of genius, while those who merely pretend to have such skills are of course total frauds.

Doc

[Sprint]

Although such skills are certainly possible, few individuals actually possess the highly developed mental abilities needed to do so or the extraordinary control of a large enough volume of energy necessary to do so.

Doc

Just so as I am absolutely clear, you are saying that it is possible to move an object without touching it, using nothing other than "intrinsic energy"? How? Is it because the LAWS of physics don't apply in La-La land?

[klonk]

Doc,

I've never encountered an example of empty force that was not social/psychological manipulation. The problem with that stuff is it falls apart when opposed to a determined adversary, vice a more or less willing or cowed accomplice.

The best way for me to avoid committing the black swan fallacy is simply to inquire where one might go to see the real deal demonstrated.

Just 'cause I never saw it is not proof positive that it does not exist, and this is strict scientific logic (see the recent Bigfoot thread.) There are many things in the wide world that are claimed but unproven, but that does not strictly make them disproven either.

I'm looking for the polite skepticism smiley. Seems we don't have one; we should get one.

If when you say such techniques are based on belief, you are referring to the belief of the recipient (uke, catcher), then I think we agree entirely.

[Doc Stier]

I've never encountered an example of empty force that was not social/psychological manipulation. If when you say such techniques are based on belief, you are referring to the belief of the recipient, then I think we agree entirely.

Of course, what you state is probably true in many cases. However, it isn't only the the recipients who embrace this belief. Many of the charlatans also seem to believe that they actually possess such skills until their fraud is fully exposed.

Even so, I still think that anything is possible through the harnessed power of an extraordinary mind, including empty force techniques, while also admitting that such things are highly improbable for most.

Doc

[qiphlow]

Even so, I still think that anything is possible through the harnessed power of an extraordinary mind, including empty force techniques, while also admitting that such things are highly improbable for most.

+1

[Dweezle]

Mike, RE your comments:

""Fubo" or Whatever Your Real Name Is,

Empty Force is an integral part of my training.

The fruits of that training have served me well.

You think it's a joke.

That is fine with me.

"Fubo".

... and by the way :


* My teacher does not charge huge amounts of money, - in fact, ( ) my teacher paid my expences on our last trip to China.

*My teacher has only about a dozen students who attend regular classsess.

* Training Empty Force requires intense physical contact that results in bruising, - and we wear industrial back braces in order to avoid lower back injuries ( ruptured disks).

* I call my teacher by his first name, as do most of his students; although some students who came to him as paitients call him "Doctor", ( and some of the Chinese students refer to him as Shirfu). But most of the time we just hang out like friends; so unless you were observing us at the end of a group meditation or a Vajrayana ceremony, you would never guess that my teacher held some kind of special status.

So, "Fubo" , you see, - you mock that which you do not understand. "

How has that training served you well? I don't care who your teacher is, if he charges you etc... doesn't matter. Do you have any proof to offer or just words on the screen for Empty Force?

I would be willing to be a test subject if you like, Pm me for information, I would be happy to be an objective participant and video the entire ordeal to evidence your magical Empty force skills....

Or do you want to continue to blow smoke up the communities proverbial As$?

D

[Mike Strong]

Dweezle ( or whatever you real name is),

I have gone through this many times here; so suffice it to say:

What is your real name ?

Who is your teacher ?

Do you want to fight ?

Do you want to test my skills ?

My elboes, knees, and fists will make contact with you; so if you think I'm going to stand there waving my hands you are mistaken.

If you don't understand how Kong Jing trianing will aid in my elboes, fists and knees cutting through your snarky ass like butter, - then FUCK YOU !!!

What is your real name ?

Where do you live ?

Or are you just WORDS ON A COMPUTER SCREEN ?

Huh ?

WHAT !?!

[Doc Stier]

Hey, Mike:

In a perfect world, these guys would man up and step forward to answer your call in person, but you know already that it ain't gonna happen here...not now...probably not ever!

Doc