ignoring evidence

[Strange]

yah, what can i say, its sad

[Chris McKinley]

Sometime it is best to leave well alone! One just cannot tell pepole they are misled so just let the good times roll!
It's all good!

Right up until you see somebody die due directly to bad training. It doesn't change how open people will be to the message, but it definitely changes whether or not you can just sit there silent about it.

[beegs]

i just want to make clear that of course their are individuals who make these arts work just fine, however my orignal topic was based on the situation overall.

[mixjourneyman]

beegs: challenge fights still happen all the time in china.
Masters won't usually do that though, since their job is not as fighter, it is as teacher.
A cursory search of sina or youku will turn up plenty of cma challenge matches.
some of which are reasonably good, some of which are not.

Fact is that we are practicing antique martial arts as a hobby for the most part. the professionals in these styles tend to make their money teaching and have too much to lose to fight in public.

There is a really basic fact about chinese culture that people tend to ignore; if you lose face for any reason, life becomes hard. It is much more important for Chinese maters to keep face than it is to prove they are good fighters. Chinese culture is much bigger to these people than martial arts. martial arts they maybe practice and teach a few hours a day, but they are surrounded by their peers and follow cultural rules at all times. Chinese culture is about being smart in order to survive, but it is also about relationships and how you are perceived within the context of those relationships.
Chinese people are for the most part not risk takers. they manage their lives with care, CMA are no different.
the cultural understanding that may have allowed CMA to flourish in the Republican era was that CMA masters were previous to that era seen as uneducated toughs who would never be able to mesh with high level people in society. After the guomingdang started promoting martial arts as a form of strengthening for the Chinese people, some masters became very famous, but usually the most successful ones were those who adhered to the cultural narrative of academia, rather than the desire to be famous for fighting. If Chinese masters could be famous from fighting alone, they would all be SC guys and soldiers. the idea of wenwu (culture studies and martial art) is absoltuely inseparable from TCMA in China. in the west it is, because it is not our culture, but chinese people will never take those two ideas apart.
Chinese don't like fighting for the most part, in their society it is seen as a dirty activity and not really something to be done in public. Most martial arts teachers in China don't fight, and don't think it is important. the one's who do generally keep it private, and only share it with students and friends. When challenges get fought,these days it is usually in the context of two guys getting together and arguing over a technique, or a couple of young guys having an argument online and meeting up t have a spar.
those videos are legion on the net, but you will never get a video of Chen Xiaoxing fighting anyojne, or any other top master for that matter, doesn't fit with the chinese cultural narrative.
Culture always trumps hobbies that are associated with culture.

[beegs]

fighters fight, cultrure or not, non fighters train and dont act like they fight and usually everyone is very friendly.

many are fooled by what their doing is fighting when without fighting,its playing.

culture or not, its same everywhere. Saving face is important for fighters as well and they fight to save face.

im pretty surrounded by asian culture in the last decade, my teacher, my acu college professors, my dealings with herb shops and martial artist in chinatown etc. from my point of view some of what you say are true and some may just be your experience but not enough to identify a culture