Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby cloudz on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:03 am

califax wrote:
Tiga Pukul wrote:Too bad the 'streetfighter' didn't get to fight with bare hands as well. That would make the ironpalm-guy probably also more cautious..


Nope. The gloves protect the hands, not the target. They actually allow for much harder and much more devastating strikes than bare knuckles do.


then why not go with mma gloves ?
Strikes with those, land that much harder than with all that padding - they were big gloves!
Comparing mma fights with boxing fights, shows the difference.

that would have been a lot fairer, and would also allow both to grab and tie up equally. Those gloves where very big, I can't help thinking there was an unfair advantage going on here both in offense and defense. saying that things could still end up the same as the guy with the gloves simply didn't look particularly up to it. But I think he made a mistake accepting those terms to fight.

the no gloves guy could defend much easier against big ass gloves than the other guy could against bare hand. the bare hand guy also had the advantage of landing much harder, stinging strikes than the guy with all that padding could. That's two clear cut advantages. And it really showed in the footage.

Coiled spring, if things have to be skewed like that for so called 'traditional styles' to look good.... then that in itself doesn't seems to me to be an adequate indictment of their effectiveness.. If that's what you need..

Having said that, I thought the barehand guy did well. Despite the terms, he did what he had to do, and did it well. That's all he can do.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:44 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby Strange on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:27 am

coiled spring,
perhaps you have heard me say that ima comes from nothing.
as such it is an art that require imagination. if there are those that snigger when you say palm strike behind the head; dun be too bothered cos its just a simple lack of imagination. a trained internal martial artist can always turn his palm into a knife hand and aim for the base of the skull.

we should not blame others cos there are those that collect martial arts like a machinist would collect tools; they think the more tools in their tool box the better. yet there are those who treat their martial art as a way of life, where every step is a stance, every move is a strike. some xylh manual say that in this manner, the martial art trains itself.

the former method think the opponent is the problem; the latter believes that we are the problem.
i believe time will bear me out; it is not the martial art that is to be blamed; usually the practitioner is not good enough to apply it.

cheers.
Last edited by Strange on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby califax on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:40 am

cloudz wrote:
califax wrote:
Tiga Pukul wrote:Too bad the 'streetfighter' didn't get to fight with bare hands as well. That would make the ironpalm-guy probably also more cautious..


Nope. The gloves protect the hands, not the target. They actually allow for much harder and much more devastating strikes than bare knuckles do.


then why not go with mma gloves ?


I don't know. :)
He might have a box spot background and therefore feel more comfortable with big gloves. Boxers are often used to use their gloves as a shield to hide behind. Or he might be afraid going with smaller gloves might have him accidentally break his hands on impact.

But.. well. I do not know. :)
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby cloudz on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:48 am

cool, it was more of a rhetorical question than anything.. What you said about protecting the hands is quite right of course.
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Kung fu vs. street thugs.

Postby Patrick on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:59 am

I found another one ;D

http://www.dhyana-fitness.at- The philosophy and practice of a healthy life
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby Tiga Pukul on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:21 am

califax wrote:
Tiga Pukul wrote:Too bad the 'streetfighter' didn't get to fight with bare hands as well. That would make the ironpalm-guy probably also more cautious..


Nope. The gloves protect the hands, not the target. They actually allow for much harder and much more devastating strikes than bare knuckles do.


My my.. I guess you are not practicing IMA?
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby califax on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:33 am

Tiga Pukul wrote:
califax wrote:
Tiga Pukul wrote:Too bad the 'streetfighter' didn't get to fight with bare hands as well. That would make the ironpalm-guy probably also more cautious..


Nope. The gloves protect the hands, not the target. They actually allow for much harder and much more devastating strikes than bare knuckles do.


My my.. I guess you are not practicing IMA?


First: I do. Second: This is just as irrelevant to the topic as your attack ad hominem. ;)
Well, I don't draw my ideas about box sport fighting equipment from chinese wisdom but instead from (surprise!) what boxers tell me about the history of box sports and the mechanics of their striking skills.
Broken hands are typical injuries when well-trained boxers fight bareknuckel. Boxing gloves where introduced to reduce hand injuries in the ring and allow the striker to hit even the hardest parts of his opponents skull with full force. It's a typical tactic in box sport to take an opponents strike with the forehead. Before the introduction of big gloves, boxers often tried (and succeeded in) given the attacker their forehead in angles the attackers fist couldn't handle.
"To establish bridge, I would Kai Shi with my Shou to his Zhou making sure I have rooted my Jiao in my Bu. Of Then with 100% Yi, I peng or Kou.
Or, for the 98% of MAists without their heads up their arse.....So, we clinch."
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby Tesshu on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:37 am

So... should boxers not learn to use their fists only against soft parts and palm strikes against harder parts ;) Maybe boxing is just shit due to using gloves in training. (Just kidding. Or...?)

Maybe the iron palm guy should work together with this "boxer". Why so much hate and fighting? They should make love! Er, train together. End of any martial arts thread. ;D
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby Coiled_Spring on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:55 am

Strange,

I completely agree with your views. I like this forum because of the more experienced TCMAist who post once in a rare while. But it is supposed to be the most famous forum for internal martial arts. So the thing that always surprises me is when posters here also fail to recognize true skills. Last time it happened when I posted the video of Ushiro Kenji who was sparring (with very less cooperation) against a pro sport fighter, and people still had doubts if it is real or not. This time also the same.

I can say at least that this video shows usage of real martial skills much more than the two Kung Fu quest episode sparring I saw till now (yet to see the mantis one).

@Critics


Look at 0.03 of the video. It was the boxer who initiated attack and was pretty confident initially. But when he experienced the penetration of the iron palms, he became more cautious. This is all very conspicuous IMO.

At 0.05 the boxer gets slapped with the Iron Palm in the jaw, which results in 0.18 when the first round stops and the boxer seems to have got hurt. He is all red due to the effective strikes. This is real kung fu. No joke.
Last edited by Coiled_Spring on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby DaDa on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:58 am

I don't think they had MMA gloves WHEN and WHERE they were.
This doesn't seem that new of a video and well, it looks like China. The MMA scene is not really big there.

The Iron Palm guy deserves respect. He went out there and is fighting. Additionally, he handled himself pretty well against a person nearly twice his size.

Summary of arguments of this topic against the CMA fighter.
1. Not fair, he isn't using gloves, so it hurts more
2. That's not a real street fighter!
3. a newbie BJJ would choke out Godzilla, Luke Skywalker, etc
4. Fight was rigged.
5. a real fighter would beat him silly. the big isn't a good technician.

Summary of pros
1. boxing gloves hurt more since they protect only the hands of the boxer
2. boxing gloves are shields
3. the CMA is 60kg, the other fighter is over 100kg
4, the CMA had intent

So let's switch this guys, let me ask ya'll,
WHAT DID THE CMA GUY DO RIGHT?!
WHERE DID HE GO WRONG?
WHAT COULD HE HAVE DONE BETTER?

tldr; awful board discussions make me face palm.
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby califax on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:02 am

Tesshu wrote:So... should boxers not learn to use their fists only against soft parts and palm strikes against harder parts ;)


Why should they? They have gloves. And they don't train the ground game. Because there is no ground game in box sports. And they don't even learn taking out tanks and armoured carriers in boxing because, well, there ain't no such thing in box sports.
It's gloves, it's dental protection, it's striking as hard as possible. And somehow they love it just the way it is. -toast-

Now, can we just put that non-sense aside?
Two male grown-ups meet to test their skills according to rules both agreed upon. That's it.

PS.:
regards hurting, gloves and striking power - It's not about what hurts more. Fighters don't feel much pain anyway when in a fight. It's about brain concussion. It's about damage not about pain. To think "holy crap that hurts so much in training, it must be a powerful weapon in a real fight!" is a pretty common mistake not just in IMA.

PS2.: About this sparring in this video - It's not a real fight, it's sparring. Training. Impressive though. I love how the CMA guy aggressively takes the initiative and the boxer obviously couldn't handle that kind of slaps. Came in as a surprise to him. :)
Last edited by califax on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
"To establish bridge, I would Kai Shi with my Shou to his Zhou making sure I have rooted my Jiao in my Bu. Of Then with 100% Yi, I peng or Kou.
Or, for the 98% of MAists without their heads up their arse.....So, we clinch."
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby Tiga Pukul on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:09 am

Boxing is a very good sport, but telling that boxing gloves can produce much more devastating strikes than bare knuckle, really is b.s. But then again, if you never seen another way of hitting (using bare knuckle), then I understand your reasoning. Boxers can break their wrists when fighting barehand because they always tape their wrists and fists, and therefore not conditioning them for use in a barehanded fight. Hitting bare knuckle requires a different way of hitting (timing) instead of using them as sledgehammers. Or...like Tesshu said, perhaps use them against soft areas.

But let's go on-topic again, sorry for me sidetracking it...
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby jonathan.bluestein on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:41 am

I don't see how the fact that the big guy was inept have implications on the level of skill presented by the Iron Palm fighter. The latter fought well, regardless of the other guy's skill. He also took it easy on him after the first few seconds - could've easily caused serious damage and deliver more strikes, and refrained from doing so. I think he has both skill and Wu De. And one cannot really say anything about a possible boxer or a BJJ opponent 'till we've seen him fight such people.
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby GrahamB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:47 am

Let's settle this once and for all - MMA vs Tai Chi! Definite PROOOOOF!

Tai Chi vs MMA:

One does not simply post on RSF.
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Re: Iron Palm Master vs Street Fighter (Good fight)

Postby Tesshu on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:29 am

califax,

I like boxing. I really like it.

But, since people usually won't wear boxing gloves all day round and usually fights break out in their spare time when they don't train, they should at least train some strategies for fighting without rules or gloves, for that matter. No?
Don't get my post wrong - I tried the humorous side of it all (and failed - as usual...) ;)
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