Images from Dr. Stephen Yan

[baguamen22]

Personally I think the person sitting next to Master Wu looks like an older woman...someone in their mid-50s.

[stephen yan]

All of these photos were published before by other people, except the snapshot of the Wushu partner form. I don't really know why these photos are posted here. Is it to impress some people around here ? Unfortunately, it even works with some of the respectable members. Let's see what the future will bring to light...

except the snapshot of the Wushu partner form
man , you jokes hard ! wu ying hua did wu shu?!

[Darth Rock&Roll]

That is the founder of Yang style?

[edededed]

More images (3rd set) from Dr. Yan:


Master Wu Yinghua (吳英華) performing Dishelanlucangshenqiang (地蛇攔路藏身槍) from Wu style 24 spear (二十四槍)


Master Ma Yueliang (馬岳樑) performing Dangmenjian (當門劍) from Wu style 2nd sword form Qixingjian (七星劍)


Master Ma Yueliang performing Dahushi (打虎勢) from Wu style taiji broadsword (太極刀)


Master Ma Yueliang performing Jintongsongshuyubichang (金童送书玉臂长) from Wu style 13 big spear (十三槍)


Master Ma Yueliang performing Louxishi (摟膝勢) from Wu style fast form (快拳)

[Doc Stier]

Thank you, Dr. Yan, for sharing these wonderful photographs.

It is always an amazing pleasure to see how much the Old Masters can teach us simply from their remaining still photos only.

It is very cool!

Doc

[stephen yan]

my site was accidently lost and it is now back on .www. tai-chi .co.nz or www. kung-fu .co.nz or www. qigong .co.nz , i have not had a chance to renew it for a long long time , i will get on it next year .

[stephen yan]

Dear Tom , please don't lock this thread , as i said that i have iron evidences that among master ma y l ,wu t n and tian y j 's fast form videos , master ma's one remained original , let me finish my saying , isn't it important for taichi history ?or my believe of this site being democratic is wrong?

[cdobe]

Dr. Yan--

For coherency's sake, please start a new thread for each separate topic that you wish to discuss.

The posts from the thread about the Fast Form had spread out over a wide variety of topics and were mixed in with too much personal animosity between you, YM, cdobe and others. That is why the other thread was locked.

Thank you for your cooperation.

As far as I'm concerned, there was no personal animosity involved. And Yuen-Ming just pointed something out that I've heard several times now from various people.
I've been curious whether this thread I started could beat Bruce Reiter's classic "test no topic" or Shawn Segler's "What are you listening to?" You spoiled it, Tom

[velalavela]

All of these photos were published before by other people, except the snapshot of the Wushu partner form. I don't really know why these photos are posted here. Is it to impress some people around here ? Unfortunately, it even works with some of the respectable members. Let's see what the future will bring to light...

cdobe is right. Most of these have been published before in books or various magaizines already.

The 'wushu partner form' is actaully a still from Shi Mei Lin and Wu Ying Hua showing the wu style two person sword form.
It's not wushu other than any martial arts is. It's not modern wushu. This 'Two person sword' pic comes from an interview done by New Zealand TV in 1990.

There are later stills from video of Master Ma. Spear, Sabre. These videos I've (and her other students) have been shown by ShI Mei Lin.
She has a some great old footage of master Ma pushing hands etc.

My older Kung Fu brother Frank (a student of Shi Mei Lin's since she arived in New Zealand ) and I put these up on youtube a while ago. We put up the full interview with Master Ma as well as we got a copy of all the footage TV reporters shot that day.

Probably you guys have seen these already on youtube but here are the links again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehiWgpxrwQM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlimAL14 ... re=related

Regards
Bill

[stephen yan]

among master ma y l ,wu t n and tian y j 's fast form videos , master ma's one remained original .


1,after i carefully read Tian zhaolin's site and talked to Tian yin jar's children , i realised that fast form after Tian zhaolin , it became blurry to Tian's 2nd generation ,even though TIANfamily still kept fast form movement names and their orders ,they no longer be able to do the whole form , TIAN y j 's children told me that they never saw their father did whole form .FROM what TIAN y j's article , it clearly said the fast form movement changes at a person's defferent levels of understanding ,even combined defferently , which i don't really agree with this saying since the fast form movements' names has it's order , it should followe certain routings , but TIAN's saying reflects his fast form video that is he combined the way as much as he understood the form , maybe as much as he performed in the video , no wonder his children never saw him doing the whole thing . so by saying TIAN'S fast form was not complete or partialy lost or not quite same as the original one ,shouldn't be a wrong conclusion . we can also use WU TU NAN' FAST form AS a testimony , both wu t n and tian z l learned from yang shao hou ,and wu t n was the direct generation down from yang s h ,so it had less chance to change than 3rd generation of Tian y j.since wu t n 's one is defferent from Tian y j's , this means tian y j's one was changed by tian y j .

2, wu tu nan's fast form , has his changed or not ? the answer is YES!
By comparing his early 1960's fast form pictures (the book said they took over 80 photes of wu t n's fast form pictures in early 1960's)and their orders , with wu t n's videos in his late age (around 90 years old),we can see clearly his form changed from his around 60 years old one to his 90 years old one, we are lucky to have his early fast form's pictures for comparision, otherwise it would be an argument. i trust his fast form in his 60 years old as more original than his one in his 90's. so the video we see was his changed one .

3, master ma's fast form was the orginal one !
by comparing wu t n's one in his 60's ,with master ma's one , we amazingly found the movements and their oders (not only the names of the movements but how the movements looks as well ) are 99% same ! ma learned from wu j q , wu tn learned from yang s h ,not same teacher , but same form , how amazing ,but understandable , as the fast form of yang s h and wu j q were all originaly from yang l c . this is very exciting! it indicats the two line which one from yang lc to yang b h to yang s h to wu tu nan's middle age (60's) , and another line starting from same person yang l c to wu quan you to wu j q to ma y l remained same after 3 - 4 generations' apart, those generations had huge respect to the fast form ,and didn't dare to change it . but unfortunately ,wu t n changed it in his late age . but luckly master ma's still remained same .

to be continue ...

[GrahamB]

Point 1: You say 'fast form' or 'small frame' is a fixed form. Tian's descendants say it's not. That's just your words against theirs.

Point 2: You have not convinced me of this. I'm not convinced that the still photos that were posted of Wu Tu Nan's 1960 book can't all be found in that video of Wu Tun Nan that's available. Unfortunately I can't check it because the pictures have gone. Can somebody please post them again so we can check?

Point 3: Your logic here is self-fulfilling based on your previous conclusions.

[cdobe]

I don't understand why the other thread is closed down and the discussion continues here. It doesn't make things easier. This thread was supposed to be about pictures, the other one was about the fast form.

Point 2
Repeating the same wrong statements over and over again is really tiresome.

#1 The form in this book is supposed to be Yang Shaohou's form, not Wu Jianquan's. That was written on the pages you posted. In Wu Tunan's older book and in his older photos, that demonstrate the Wu style, the postures are clearly the regular
Wu style postures, not Ma Yueliang's fast form postures.

#2 The postures in the book are exactly the same as in the video clips.

[Yuen-Ming]

Oh my ...

Tian Yingjia's fast frame is simply ... Tian Yingjia's fast frame.
One only need to check out other disciples of Tian Zhaolin to find out that they do a different set of frames.
And by the way, Tian Zhaolin's own fast frame is HIS fast frame and not Shaohou's (on which it is only based).

Wu Tunan's fast frame was totally made up by himself based on his Wu style practice and this is where Yan might see similarities.
Wu Tunan was never a disciple of Yang Shaohou and only briefly studied with him, as a public student.

Again check with actual lines coming down from Yang Shaohou, they have a curriculum in common with Banhou's descendants + the additions made by Shaohou and and a few things from dad Jianhou. They all do more or less the same things, nothing in common with Wu Tunan and only slightly with the Tian transmission (that's why they call it Yang style Tian frame).

There is no old/original Taijiquan, that's a fantasy for those who have not understood what Taijiquan is all about and more recently a nice way to trick money out of gullible students.

Yang Luchan passed down to his first generation disciples, including his sons, a vast curriculum of which a "fast frame" was only a step of the full training path. There is not a single practice from the full curriculum that has the miracolous power of making the pratictioner another 'invincible Yang'. It is the whole process and, most of all, the maniacal work on it that produces results.

Yang Luchan passed various sets, exercises, wai/neigong practice and the first generation enlarged the curriculum even more inventing new and more specialized training systems. They were PROFESSIONALS whose lives depended on that and they devoted all their time in practice and testing. Third generation Shaohou received uncle Banhou's full curriculum, part of his dad Jianhou's practices and created some on his own - his curriculum was without doubt the most comprehensive and he passed down among a pletora of other things, to a few disciples only, two fast frames (his own and Banhou's).

Best

YM

[cdobe]

Wu Tunan's fast frame was totally made up by himself based on his Wu style practice and this is where Yan might see similarities.
Wu Tunan was never a disciple of Yang Shaohou and only briefly studied with him, as a public student.

I'm sorry, but his form hasn't much in common with the Wu style. He learned Wu style properly as you can see in the photos of the young Wu Tunan. But the form from Youtube seems to be his very own...

[Yuen-Ming]

Wu Tunan's fast frame was totally made up by himself based on his Wu style practice and this is where Yan might see similarities.
Wu Tunan was never a disciple of Yang Shaohou and only briefly studied with him, as a public student.

I'm sorry, but his form hasn't much in common with the Wu style. He learned Wu style properly as you can see in the photos of the young Wu Tunan. But the form from Youtube seems to be his very own...

Yes, this is exactly what I said "fast frame made up by himself" based on his Wu style practice (as this is what he had learned)

It is therefore a "Wu Tunan" style based on Wu style and not a Yang style

YM