the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

(One year, a member of Gracie’s family from Brazil visited the park. Respect was exchanged between the two parties and the agreement on the rules were made. After three short rounds of free style pushing, Gracie went home with dirt on his back.)

http://www.wuweitaichi.com/articles/Taipei_Report.htm

intresting

(Taiwan is a small island, about the size of Illinois, but it has a dense population of CMC practitioners, and makes very little room for other styles of TaiChi; the good side of that is the CMC community sets a high standard for teaching & practicing and creates a strong bond for students. The negative side is that makes very little room for different voices and sources for students to compare with, and they don't have a Tai-Chi-Talk-Site like us for all opinions to express. We in the States, to the contrary, have too many sources and too much free talks that most times made us even more confused. Most of senior students in Taipei surprised that we have THAT much to discuss about CMC's study on the internet, they said they don't have the environment to exchange discussions so they practice hard instead.)

lol.

Sounds like a lot of typical bullshit Chinese bragging to me. I did get that the second part of the post was the main point but nothing irks me more than anecdotal Chinese stories about how their shifu defeated some anonymous foreign "champion". "a member of Gracie’s family from Brazil"? Really? Which member? What context? Friendly exchange? If it ever happened, certainly not in a challenge format.

I went to the website and that particular anecdote just reeks of bs. and I'm no BJJ fan even.

windwalker wrote:(One year, a member of Gracie’s family from Brazil visited the park. Respect was exchanged between the two parties and the agreement on the rules were made. After three short rounds of free style pushing, Gracie went home with dirt on his back.)

Ha - dirt on his back? No shit - that's how they fight, on their back I suppose this was seen as a complete defeat by people who judge victory by who moved their foot a tiny bit

lol.

Good point. I guess maybe it did happen. GJJ isn't exactly known for it's throws. . .

(I went to the website and that particular anecdote just reeks of bs. and I'm no BJJ fan even)

yep,,probbly so,,,,,did you e-mail the site to check the story?
I saw this quite a while back,,,,and found it to be intresting...

Graham's comment actually put it in better perspective. I find an incident where some BJJ name guy lost his balance and pulled guard completely plausible. I've just seen waaaaaay too many incidents where really smug Taiji folks haven't got a clue what they're looking at. My main issue is that is was an un-named Gracie. I'd bet even money that it was just some Gracie JJ dude and something got lost in translation. I have lost count of how many anonymous "Russian Wrestlers" have gotten beaten up and how many karate "Champions" have been humiliated. The Russian's always have Chinese nicknames with no way to connect them to anyone who historically existed and the Karate guys who won a championship belt in an inter-school city-wide competition get advertised as "Karate Champions".

I do have to walk back my comment a bit tough. Graham nailed it: "Left with dirt on his back" just tells me that maybe the taiji guy beat him at push hands. . .kind of a meaningless claim if you are "competing" against someone who doesn't really train Taiji. What's the big deal about throwing a guy who trains to be on the ground? It's not like he beat some Gracie in a fight or in free sparring. It says:

After three short rounds of free style pushing, Gracie went home with dirt on his back.

Ok, so he's better at push hands than some Gracie family member. Not really that big of a claim. lol.

Anyway, on the slim chance this did actually happen, I'd put money on it not being a Gracie family member. I agree with Omar - the bullshit level is off the charts

In other news -

Tai Chi dude claims victory after boxer left with bruises on his hands, caused by repeatedly blocking with his face!

Area Tai Chi fanatic Wong survived a fierce park encounter with a pissed up tramp (who claimed to be an ex boxing champion). "I could tell he was going to be a difficult opponent", said Ping, friend of Wong, who witnessed the whole incident. "So we challenged the intruder in our park to a friendly push hands match, however he seemed more interested in hitting some pigeons with a stick. But we insisted, at which point he turned around and repeatedly struck Pong in the face, however, Pong didn't move his foot one bit and the unskilled Westeners hands were all bruised, making us the winner!". Wong was later taken to hospital for a fractured jaw. "Mmmmmmmnnnnrghhh!" he commented from his hospital bed. The tramp could not be reached for comment.

Well, the Gracie storry smells really fishy. Can't believe that a GJJ guy would accept Taiwan parks phs rules, and if one did so, he would have gone home rather clean, as throws are seldom seen, lol.

On the other hand, I have also met my share of Westerners who came to check their skills in TJQ phs format and got a bit of an unexpected awakening: the European phs champ of 70kgs needed my assitence (wind/water/psychological reassurance, lol) at the 2nd worldcup (knew him) to survive 3 rounds with a Taiwanese youngster, making just a few points, loosing thoroughly. And the Yang Luchan god of France, highly respected over there, performed even worse, silch points, with bodily advantages, had no idea what moving step really means.

Taiwanese phs players can be mean, play rather rough with lots of tricks, and some really got the goods. If any one ever comes to Tainan (south), Saturday mornings at Chenggong university, from smooth to all-goes, with striking and throwing and all! Have a try!

I find most of the comments kind of amusing.

Fist a denial, with out checking or even emailing the site, even by those in Taiwan who should be easily able to check it out.
Second, the acceptance with caveats.

I took note that the story is not even highlighted nor starts as the main lead, its just part of his narrative. There is not, or apparently was not much publicity about it because if one accepts the story as true, it was between two people who really respected each others skill sets.

This was just a small part of a larger story reflecting someones observations and experiences.

It seems unthinkable to some that a Gracie (or someone training that stuff) can lose something just-a-bit-fighty to a Taiwanese PH (maybe even a Taichi) guy. Why is this so?

Maybe they had an encounter and the GJJ guy went down on his back... well, as long as the other guy is still standing I'd say good that he likes to be on the ground but to what effect?

Tesshu wrote:It seems unthinkable to some that a Gracie (or someone training that stuff) can lose something just-a-bit-fighty to a Taiwanese PH (maybe even a Taichi) guy. Why is this so?

Bolded for emphasis. There is a HUUUUUUGE difference between "a Gracie family member" and "someone training that stuff". Miles and miles. Of course the Gracies don't just pop out of the womb and slap arm-bars on the doctors, I get that. I'm sure some of the Gracie family members don't even train. . . but there'd be no point in name dropping Aunty Rose Grace who doesn't train and the one's who actually represent BJJ . . . are pretty much all world fucking class. Like gold standard for Jujitsu. If it was boxing, then the family members would not be golden gloves champions, they would be WBA title holders.

It's not exactly like they couldn't be thrown by some really skilled Taiji guy. Like I said before, BJJ isn't exactly world famous for stand up grappling. But the story makes it sound like he got whupped or something.

Fist a denial, with out checking or even emailing the site, even by those in Taiwan who should be easily able to check it out.

I love you man and really love hearing your idea on Taiji in general but with an anecdotal story like this, it just doesn't even have enough credibility to me to be worth doing legwork for and more importantly, the story wasn't posted here on RSF really. You just linked it. It's not like anyone is trying to convince me anyways. I read the story. It doesn't add up to me. That's all.

bailewen wrote:

Tesshu wrote:It seems unthinkable to some that a Gracie (or someone training that stuff) can lose something just-a-bit-fighty to a Taiwanese PH (maybe even a Taichi) guy. Why is this so?

Bolded for emphasis. There is a HUUUUUUGE difference between "a Gracie family member" and "someone training that stuff". Miles and miles. Of course the Gracies don't just pop out of the womb and slap arm-bars on the doctors, I get that. I'm sure some of the Gracie family members don't even train. . . but there'd be no point in name dropping Aunty Rose Grace who doesn't train and the one's who actually represent BJJ . . . are pretty much all world fucking class. Like gold standard for Jujitsu. If it was boxing, then the family members would not be golden gloves champions, they would be WBA title holders.

It's not exactly like they couldn't be thrown by some really skilled Taiji guy. Like I said before, BJJ isn't exactly world famous for stand up grappling. But the story makes it sound like he got whupped or something.

bolded for emphasis.

And if someone from the fighty part of the Gracie family went over and got his ass handed to him, so what?! Why is a oneandahalflinestory like this fishy? Aren't they known for travelling to test themselves (an idea which is really great!)?

I have no personal interest in this I am just asking for the mode of thinking. Simplified it sounds like Gracie+lost a fight = fishy story. And that is quite strange, wouldn't you agree?

Bodyguards crossing their arms to >>>>>>> gracie vs tai chi challenge matches.

only on RSF

Come on, Tesshu, you never have played, say, with a high calibre judo guy?
I did, and I know where I ended up with my Taiji skills of 20 yrs, without striking. When they caught me, it was over, but then, what do I know, right?
Go play outside of your Taiji school, and you'll see, a good blue belt is not that easy to handle.
A Gracie JJ guy with any decent level wouldn't bend to a bit of phs, for sure.

Yes, I have played outside my school and it went well. Give some take some.
I know that good karate, judo and mantis guys are not easy to handle. Last adventure involved a Greco-Roman wrestler. And still it went well (was a bit hard for my ribcage, but well...)

I simply think it's funny that people cannot at least accept the idea that a fighting Gracie may have lost. Nothing more.