The Cult of Saturn

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Patrick on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:49 am

http://www.dhyana-fitness.at- The philosophy and practice of a healthy life
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Dmitri on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:23 am

paranoidandroid wrote:Satan hello?

Well hello there!

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Did you notice there's "hell" in every "hello"?

But, you know what, -- screw all the subtleties and ambiguities, encoded messages and subliminal programming. Start 'em young, I say!

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Be afraid! BE VERY, VERY AFRAID!!!!!!

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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby I-mon on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:42 pm

There's a lot of truth in a lot of conspiracy stuff but the big problem is:

CONSPIRACY WEBSITES GET YOU HIGH!

It's another way of getting addicted to the dopamine rush, like gambling or porn. Watch out for that shit.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Patrick on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:44 am

The best part about conspiracy websites is the reasoning. Its on par with the reasoning of kozure okami characters.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Michael on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:08 am

Symbols are interesting, to say the least. Continuity of symbology from one culture to the next can be a clear indication of continuity of ideology and institutions from one group to the following generation, regardless of time, geography, name, or even language.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Michael on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:15 am

The beehive hats of Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli, Pope John XXIII, 1958-63.

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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Ralteria on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:52 am



The eyes burn bright
Laced with scars of deceit
Gazing into the void- The Enemy
Betrayed
A dissonant reality

Dig deep beneath your skin
Scratches of denial, of emptiness
inherit unreason
beg for fate
for we have wasted away

Lay low - the unseen lucid
In an age, fragile, and expired
Emancipate

The collective conscious reeks of shadowed dellusion
Existance is fear
A savior from the surrogate Utopia

So weep your blood sincere
Drowning in the deadest sky
Grasping the exhausted ashes of hope
Crowned in absolution
The Eternal Fallen
Suffocate

We are Nil
Hold tight your buns, if buns you do hold dear!!!! For time has come to wake and run and not give way to fear!!!!
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Michael on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:53 am

Pope John Paul XXIII

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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Steve James on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:09 pm

I love symbology.
The colors of red, white, and blue are common to the US, UK, and French flags and represent revolution.


Um, yeah, but they don't mean the same thing in the different cultures. For ex., in le Drapeau (i.e., the tricolor French flag), the blue symbolizes helping the poor, the white comes from Joan of Arc's flag and symbolizes the Virgin Mother, and the red represents sacrifice (of some specific martyr that I can't recall). The Union Jack is a mix of three (?) flags. It doesn't represent revolution by any stretch :) In fact, it's the opposite.

The 33 fan blades or white feather-like pieces in the background coincide with the first 33 levels of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, who give special meaning to the number 33 because of the 33 bones in the spine, the conduit for power in the human body.


Hmm, does the same hold true for the American Rite Freemasons? or York Rite?

E pluribus unum "Out of many, one." Reverse it = One out of many. You might also say "monopoly". Mono = one, Poly = many, and that’s what the United States has been famous for is the creation of monopolies.


The above is bs etymology. The "poly" in monopoly is from the Greek verb "polein" (to sell), not poly meaning many. But, he gave it a good college try :)

The oak leaves represent conquest. They are not the olive branch. Oak clusters are used for US military officer's insignia at rank of major and lieutenant colonel, or lieutenant commander and commander in the Navy.


Well, actually, there's an olive branch on the left (symbolizing peace) and an oak "branch" on the right (symbolizing strength). Btw, Oak clusters are not the same in military decoration as the oak leaf.

The fasci at the bottom of the symbol are the most obvious example of continuity of symbology. They are well known from the Roman Empire where lictors carried actual fasci, and to a lesser extent the Minoan, who used a double-headed axe. The central axe inside the bundle of sticks is the central power protected by an elite or oligarchy who are bound together. Being bound together, they are much stronger and can not be destroyed as easily as one stick can be broken with a single blow. The idea is forming ranks to protect each other. The Axis (axes) Powers of WW2 were the fascists.


Here he's right. The fascii was the symbol of the Roman Empire, and what Mussolini called his Italian party --which was opposed to the communists. Is Watt arguing the U.S. was fascist when it created the seal or just in the 1880s when they decided on this seal?

Interesting though.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Michael on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:24 pm

I love symbology.

Cool. This thread should be up your alley.

If you look at this chart of degrees, you see there are fewer steps (and presumably fewer initiation rituals for each degree) in the York Rite to achieve the same overall level in the Scottish Rite.

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The oak leaves represent conquest. They are not the olive branch. Oak clusters are used for US military officer's insignia at rank of major and lieutenant colonel, or lieutenant commander and commander in the Navy.

I missed that the branch on the left was from an olive tree. Thanks for the info. Know anything more about military oak clusters?
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Michael on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:01 am

E pluribus unum "Out of many, one." Reverse it = One out of many. You might also say "monopoly". Mono = one, Poly = many, and that’s what the United States has been famous for is the creation of monopolies.

RE: The above is bs etymology. The "poly" in monopoly is from the Greek verb "polein" (to sell), not poly meaning many. But, he gave it a good college try :)

A slight misunderstanding, he was breaking monopoly into two pieces and using them as a mnemonic to relate to the meaning of the latin phrase E Pluribus Unum.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Steve James on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:13 pm

These details are not significant compared to the overall philosophy and similarities, which he frequently refers to as "unmerited favor" in a hierarchical system that its members at the lower levels (below 33), understand very little.


The details of the rites are what make them different. You'd have to ask a Mason, not depend on Watt's assumption. Anyway, the Scottish rite is the one with 33 degrees. Other rites don't use them; but, of course, the higher the rank, the more knowledge is assumed. However, Watt makes an assumption about American Masons using 33, but they don't (afaik). AAnyway, when I count the number of whatevers on the Senate Seal, I come up with 32 :) Check. Mistakes like that mean that somebody's not being careful, and hopefully his entire argument doesn't depend on them.

Know anything more about military oak clusters?


They are attached to medals and ribbons as indications of meritorious service in addition to the award. It's possible to get a DSC (Distinguished Service Cross) with oak leaf clusters, for ex..

Watt wasn't giving the etymology of the word monopoly, he was breaking monopoly into two pieces and using them as a mnemonic to relate to the meaning of the latin phrase E Pluribus Unum.


To his interpretation of the Latin, that is. Ok, but if it's just mnemonics, then it's really just indoctrination. The careless will simply spread his misinformation, unaware that he's making it up. Hey, that's fine, as long as people know. If they accept it as true without knowing or checking, ... that's the problem with our ecudational system today.

I have not heard Watt say exactly that the USA is fascist described just like that.


Well, if he points to the symbol of the Senate and shows its fascist connections, but never says that the US is fascist, then wtf good is his opinion? The fascist symbol, for him, means something else. Afa the Greeks, they didn't use fascii, and neither did the Egyptians --though the did use bundles of wheat or grain as one of the symbols of the Pharaoh's power (often with a sickle in his other hand). But, there was no hatchet in a bundle of sticks.

The original symbol of fascism, in Italy under Benito Mussolini, was the fasces. This is an ancient Roman symbol of power carried by lictors in front of magistrates; a bundle of sticks featuring an axe, indicating the power over life and death. Before the Italian fascists adopted the fasces, the symbol had been used by Italian political organizations of various political ideologies (ranging from socialist to nationalist), called Fascio ("leagues") as a symbol of strength through unity.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Bill on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:22 pm

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Michael, where do you get 33 fan blades? I count 32.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Michael on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:15 am

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These details are not significant compared to the overall philosophy and similarities, which he frequently refers to as "unmerited favor" in a hierarchical system that its members at the lower levels (below 33), understand very little.


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There are differences between the rites of branches of masonry in different states, regions, and there are also different languages used, but it's still masonry. Sweden has a slightly different system than Norway, but it's still masonry.
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Re: The Cult of Saturn

Postby Steve James on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:09 am

If a government uses fascii on its seal and in its is lawmaking house (they are on display in the US Congress), how can it not mean that it's fascist?


Whoa, so you're saying that the U.S. is fascist? Somehow, you need to distinguish Watt's ideas from your own. You're not asking me, are you? It's too easy to compare slavery and the later Jim Crow laws to the Nuremburg laws. However, the question is whether the US is fascist now, and if so how are the symbols on the seals relevant.

Symbols are chosen because they have meaning or are given meaning, and in fact what makes them "symbols" and not "signs" is that they can have many interpretations. I don't believe that the symbols on the US seals of today mean what they did before or are continuations of some hidden political message.

We're really getting at the main point of my original post about continuity of symbology being evidence of continuity of ideology, as well as proof of a multi-generational institution to continue the system across multiple geographic regions or political boundaries.


Ok, but your thesis contains absolutely no proof, only descriptive assertions. Iow, no, the guys who made the fasces the symbol of Rome (not Egypt or Greece or Babylon or Assyria or Persia) did not put the fasces on the Senate seal and the others you place above. They used the fasces, just like they used the eagle, the oak leaves, the acorns, the arrows, etc. The UK doesn't use fasces, does it? What about France? If you want to do good research, look for where your theory doesn't work.

The chart I posted shows a comparison of York and Scottish rites that illustrate this graphically as they both lead to exactly the same place, although there are different numbers of degrees with different names.


Yeah, they lead to the same place. So, the number 33 isn't important, and shouldn't have been part of your argument. If the material isn't checked, it means that you can't depend on the author's information. You have to check for yourself. Moreover, it seems more than obvious that no Masonic order is going to claim that it is higher than another or that members of one can't reach the levels of another --even if they believed that it were true.

Masonry is an extremely deceptive religion, which is explained clearly by the former leader of masonry in the second half of the 19th century, Albert Pike...


The "explained clearly" part of the above is extremely dubious. Masonry is not a religion, any more that belonging to the Elks or Rotary Club. It's a fraternity. In 19th century America, there were loads of them. Afa Mr. Pike, are you referring to his infamy as a KKK leader, an Indian killer or a Mason? Shucks, if it had been around Washington, Jefferson, Jackson and lots of others would have belonged. Of course, if that's your logic, then you must believe that the Constitution is an evil document constructed by deceptive Masons.

I just went to Albert Pike's book to find answers, as did Alan Watt, but he did extensive studying over many years. It's not assumptions, it's from masonic reference works.


Well, look through and find me that Pike quote: http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/index.htm
Please don't post pages of text, but I'm not going to read 600+ pages to find out whether you or Watt are correct.

Yeah, "32" ain't "33" --:)
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