The Russians are coming.

[Dajenarit]

We love you Greg but you're a bit dense sometimes.

[grzegorz]

We love you Greg but you're a bit dense sometimes.

Takes one to know one. I haven't been proven wrong yet.

When I hear Benjamin Netanyahu telling the world we have to wipe Ukraine off the face of the planet then I believe the Fourth Reich has risen. Because the way that man talks if any Jews were in any type of trouble he'd be the first to know and the first to say something about it.

Besides we agree on most topics, why would you call someone dense simply because you disagree with them on one topic? If that's how you live your life you'll be very lonely my friend.

[grzegorz]

What I said was:

This is a huge thread, we've covered everything, and tons of good links were posted. I suggest that perhaps it's time to lock this one up. Anyone second?

Your reply was:

And Michael you're the last person I'd expect to stop free speech.

Your response seems a bit exaggerated. My suggestions was in order to avoid repetitive arguments and nothing to do with free speech, not even close.

In this case I suggest ones stosp posting. Don't close a thread because we disagree.

In a free society we should be able to continue this discussion as the situation develops.

Unless we are living under nazis I believe you have the right not to comment my friend.

Are you unaware that a man has been assassinated who was against the war and members of the EU are being blocked from attending the funeral? Why shouldn't we discuss this?

Please don't try that again. I think the mods have better things to do than police our discussions every time we disagree.



To me this isn't an argument as much as a discussion with different points of view.

[Michael]

In this case I suggest ones stosp posting. Don't close a thread because we disagree.

Yes. You didn't seem to catch why I made the suggestion, although others did. It's certainly not because of congenial disagreement that the thread has been a problem. Anyway, if it's not a problem now, then great.

In a free society we should be able to continue this discussion as the situation develops.

Irrelevant platitude.

Unless we are living under nazis I believe you have the right not to comment my friend.

Unnecessary reference to nazis, typical of the problem, which is why I suggested closing the thread.

Are you unaware that a man has been assassinated who was against the war and members of the EU are being blocked from attending the funeral?

I'm aware of it and already mentioned it. Did you fail to read or fail to comprehend? Of course I know that you know that I know that Nemstov was assasinated, but I'm just overreacting to your statement and pretending not to understand, the same thing you keep doing.

Why shouldn't we discuss this?

Of course discussing the topic is what we all would like to do, but some people just want to


Let me show you how a few of your comments are unnecessary by inserting them here in response:

Please don't try that again. I think the mods have better things to do than police our discussions every time we disagree.

In a free society we should be able to continue this discussion as the situation develops.
Unless we are living under nazis I believe you have the right not to comment my friend.

To me this isn't an argument as much as a discussion with different points of view.

Fine with me.

[grzegorz]

As I said I'm up for discussion.

If people don't want to discuss that's cool.

If people don't get my jokes then that's on me.

The nazis are a joke and always have been when I discuss them.

Anyway, my point is this stuff isn't over so stopping the discussion is a bit premature. Wiesiek's comments and this recent article posted are things I look forward to reading.

Agree or disagree, here is a well thought out article on Nemstov.

http://pando.com/2015/03/02/boris-nemts ... n-liberal/

I also often like the War Nerd's pieces for Pando.


B.

I can do without the name calling too so we can stop getting derailed. But hey, there's a war going on so what can you expect? Emotions will run high.

Hopefully we can continue this dialogue without any further interruptions.

[Michael]

Okay, I missed the joke about nazis. Should have caught that one.

[Dajenarit]

Just....lol....

Greg you was the rightest of them all...

[grzegorz]

No mention of any attacks on Jews in Ukraine anywhere in the internet.

Nazi myth busted.

[Dajenarit]

You got it Greg. There are no Neo Nazi's fighting in Ukraine....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion They dont even have a wiki page or anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector

[Steve James]

It's not that there are or aren't nazis in Ukraine. It's that they are being used as an excuse for whatever pro-Russians claim or demand. It's the default argument along with the US/UK conspiracy. The problem with the nazi argument is that there are just as many far right neo nazis in Russia as in Ukraine. That's also in the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism

Neo-Nazism consists of post-World War II social or political movements seeking to revive the far-right-wing tenets of Nazism.[1][2][3][4] The term neo-Nazism can also refer to the ideology of these movements.[5][6]

Neo-Nazism borrows elements from Nazi doctrine, including ultranationalism, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler.

Neo-Nazi activity is a global phenomenon, with organized representation in many countries, as well as international networks. In some European and Latin American countries, laws have been enacted that prohibit the expression of pro-Nazi, racist, anti-Semitic or homophobic views. Many Nazi-related symbols are banned in European countries in an effort to curtail neo-Nazism.[7][8][9]

Contents [hide]
1 Europe
1.1 Austria
1.2 Belgium
1.3 Bosnia and Herzegovina
1.4 Croatia
1.5 Estonia
1.6 France
1.7 Germany
1.8 Greece
1.9 Hungary
1.10 Netherlands
1.11 Russia
1.12 Serbia
1.13 Sweden
1.14 Switzerland
1.15 Turkey
1.16 Ukraine
1.17 United Kingdom

2 Asia
2.1 Israel
2.2 Mongolia
2.3 Myanmar
2.4 Syria
2.5 Taiwan

3 The Americas
3.1 Brazil
3.2 Canada
3.3 Chile
3.4 Costa Rica
3.5 United States

So, afa ultra-nationalist neo-fascism, neither side has any moral high ground on which to stand. That is, they're not fighting to end atrocities against Jews. The Israeli Prime Minister would certainly be pointing that out.

Afa continuing the discussion of Putin. Ok, first one who mentions Obama loses.

[Dajenarit]

The neo-nazis aren't aiding the government in killing civilians in Russia as far as I know? Maybe thats the difference?

But that straw man argument about neo-nazis in other countries is besides the points since Greg doesn't believe there are actually any of them in Ukraine or that there isn't a problem in Ukraine besides the ones Putin creates or the non-existent Russian battalions he sent.

[Steve James]

Naw, there aren't Ukrainian nazis killing Russians unless Russians are in Ukraine. If there are Russians in Ukraine, then of course Ukrainian nazis are killing them.

It's not a straw man to point out that there are probably Russian nazis or neo-nazis or fascists or ultra-nationalists. Their existence is not the point. Are they trying to exterminate people or ethnically cleanse areas by driving one group out? That's what nazis do, even in Russia.

As it is, if part of Ukraine wants to come under Russian control, that's considered a good thing because the the Ukrainian nazis and the US/Nato are causing all the problems. Otoh, if it's claimed that the Russians are there or are promoting the violence, that's considered a rumor with no basis in fact. But, even if true, it's the nazis who made them do it. So, if the pro-Russians bomb a town, it's justified --no matter who was in that town. If anyone supports the Ukrainians, though, they're painted as nazi supporters.

It's all too nazi neat. It's cute. But, like I said, no extermination camps, final solution, etc.., no need to cry nazi horror. At this point, I don't see the separatists as being any better. And if there were no nazis at all in Ukraine, I doubt if anyone who supports the separatists would change their opinions. So, it ends up being just a matter of useless mud-slinging, especially when it can be used against someone who isn't a nazi

[grzegorz]

The neo-nazis aren't aiding the government in killing civilians in Russia as far as I know? Maybe thats the difference?

But that straw man argument about neo-nazis in other countries is besides the points since Greg doesn't believe there are actually any of them in Ukraine or that there isn't a problem in Ukraine besides the ones Putin creates or the non-existent Russian battalions he sent.

It's like this, saying protesters were all nazis is like saying all Latino young men are gangsters. Are some Latino young men gangsters of course, well it's the same there. I've lived over there and been over there a few times and just as whites gangs in prison here identify with white power the same happens over there.

Like the Ferguson police you're trying to label all these people with one brush stroke.

Are the Klitschos nazis? Of course not.

By the way, anyone can type up a Wiki page. The Israeli media, Mother Jones and a number credible sources will report nazis running the Ukraine if that were to happen.

[grzegorz]

It's not that there are or aren't nazis in Ukraine. It's that they are being used as an excuse for whatever pro-Russians claim or demand. It's the default argument along with the US/UK conspiracy. The problem with the nazi argument is that there are just as many far right neo nazis in Russia as in Ukraine. That's also in the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism

Exactly!

That's the argument I've been making and I'll keep making.

I'm sure wiki has pages for Russian nazis too. Sure enough, a quick glance on Google and there seem to be more wiki pages for Russian nazis than Ukrainian nazis. But either easy neither proves that nazi are running Kie or Moscow for that matter.

Alright, now I understand what Michael was getting at.

[Dajenarit]

The neo-nazis aren't aiding the government in killing civilians in Russia as far as I know? Maybe thats the difference?

But that straw man argument about neo-nazis in other countries is besides the points since Greg doesn't believe there are actually any of them in Ukraine or that there isn't a problem in Ukraine besides the ones Putin creates or the non-existent Russian battalions he sent.

It's like this, saying protesters were all nazis is like saying all Latino young men are gangsters. Are some Latino young men gangsters of course, well it's the same there. I've lived over there and been over there a few times and just as whites gangs in prison here identify with white power the same happens over there.

Like the Ferguson police you're trying to label all these people with one brush stroke.

Are the Klitschos nazis? Of course not.

By the way, anyone can type up a Wiki page. The Israeli media, Mother Jones and a number credible sources will report nazis running the Ukraine if that were to happen.

All the protestors? Ferguson? The Klitschos? Israel and Mother Jones?

:"I approve this message".


If you didn't notice you killed this thread yourself by being shown dozens upon dozens of mostly credible sources and fact based arguments in good faith and choosing to ignore all of them. Like..... every....last....one, for something like a year now. You've been parroting the same tired and misinformed argument for 80, going on 90 bleeding pages. Its enough to try Buddha's patience. At this point you're probably just trolling us though cuz I can't believe someone to be that unself-aware.

If any thread needs to off itself its this one.