internal power, etc.

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:35 am

....
Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby wiesiek on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:42 am

..."How are you actually improving in power?..."

I stated on this very forum couple of times previously: most of my work - qigong,

Nothing wrong with makin` income, didn`t try to be picky,
just thinkin` that keepin` real fu in sealed mind /if you have it and are able to explain/
doesnt` make sense .

-time-
-and effort

No stupid shithead can get it, because nature of it.

and
as I understand D_Glenn post, U can`t measure it in %, we have it already /quality vary/
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:58 am

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Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:12 am

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Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Ralteria on Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:27 am

D_Glenn wrote:This Dantian development, should be movement coming from the dantian or waist (yao) and it feels more like there's a 陀螺 tuó​luó (gyroscope) inside and supporting the movements of the limbs and body. It's not like any other sport as far as I know. And it doesn't peak it only gets more refined and powerful as you practice.


.



I agree with this, from what I'm used to feeling.

As an addition and from my limited experience, pulling silk and reeling silk are different. When pulling silk, the connection between the torso and limbs feel like stretching a rubber band in one direction along the surface of the entire body rooted at the dantien.


In reeling silk, the waist and dantien rotate along the axis of the spine, which when simultaneously pulling silk, causes the limbs to rotate as well. The rotation in the limbs follows the waist rotation so one arm/leg is rotating one way and while the other arm/leg rotates in the opposition fashion. Eventually, the rotation need not be visible. Feels like that same rubber sheet is stretched AND twisted.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Interloper on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:08 am

Dan,
You dislike the comments of a personal nature and jibes you have endured from others, and are quite outspoken about that; so, you of all people should be sensitive to this and not, in turn, do it to others. I have not and never will write here about specific steps or exercises that anyone has taught or will teach me personally. Everything has been openly presented, discussed and depicted on the internet in websites, on Youtube, and in public blogs that all are welcome to read and be intrigued by. I have no agenda except hoping that others will become interested in pursuing the discipline, and will love it as much as I do.

Beyond that, I agree that my input is pointless at best. My own motivation for attempting to discuss internals is just a deep love of the thing itself and a hunger to understand it better intellectually -- which is very different from learning it physically; writing is often just trying to hash out ideas and questions. A lot gets lost in semantics, and in the end, it's only the real training that answers the questions.
Last edited by Interloper on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:17 am

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Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby amor on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:30 am

Bodywork wrote:Oh boy......

The explanation is NOT what Sam is doing. Two things are important to consider here.
1. The explanation given would need several corrections in key areas and ....still....would not produce "body unification" of any meaningful way any more than golfing.
Instead of being impressed? Why didn't... you.... Spot that?

2. Key methods to actually develop internal power were not even mentioned.[/i]


Thank you Dan, I'll try to be more scrutinizing in future but it is rather painstaking because everything is ... internal :D


Bodywork wrote:
Anyhow, I don't understand what motivates you to want to even try to spell out for everyone what your teachers gave to you personally as you go through and learn their steps? It isn't helping anyone. But hey, that's your decision, Kiddo.
Dan


Perhaps she feels there is something bigger than her and her teacher and if the info. is not out there then the art will, slowly but surely, eventually be lost. Yes, internals can be used for fighting but there is also great benefit health-wise too. There are others' on here too that are quite generous with their information and set a good example in that respect imo.



I won't ask for your opinion on internal body-connection but what do you think about the lady in the following video. Does she show signs of any unusual power ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFrkmBZA4_M
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:31 am

...
Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby wiesiek on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:27 pm

lots of words,
things are simpler,
possibly to explain i n fewer words
particularly
for old mats farts...
so
if you don`t like to tell where real gem is, then don`t ,
but
don`t play around,
if couple of solo exercises make difference please count them and give the brief
description . Its takes 1/10 of previous posts and allow me to shut up. -sumo-
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby middleway on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:42 pm

Thanks for the list Dan.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Ralteria on Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:30 pm

Bodywork wrote:Interestingly enough Hong Junsheng stated that Chen fake specifically taught against matching sets like that. That was later supported by Feng and LCG and LCD. I have my own opinions (and two of theirs) as to why you should not do so. But, I don't care to get in the middle of taiji arguments, I do MMA and its an external harmonies issue, not internal. I just thought it an interesting distinction as I have personally seen the chen village boys teach it as you just stated and with the elbow lifted and opened sideways in forms. I refused to do either in private lessons as I thought it was dumb. The elbow lift is ridiculous and also taught against by other taiji groups. Needless to say, that didn't got over well...but I don't have to do taiji..

Also of interest is a couple of friends of mine (indoor students of a big Chen guy) were approached in the village by two elderly teachers who said in no uncertain terms that Chen XiaWang, Chen Bing, and Chen Zangling...were specifically not teaching Taiji to westerners and further had agreed not to do so at several meetings in the village. A recent debate arose wherein some argued that they can't even get their own kids to train, why not teach westerners? They still agreed not to teach.
Dan


Interesting about the matching sets. I felt like it wasn't that bad as a beginner method to aid in distinguishing empty/full. Afterwards, seperating upper and lower can take precedence. What were your (and their) reasons for no matching from the get go?

Agree with you completely on the elbows. I've never understood why I see some of the Chen guys do that. I was taught from the beginning to sink the elbows, often times close to the body. Seems like turning the elbows out would pull on the scapula. Not surprising about the Chen guys not teaching westerners the real deal, though.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby windwalker on Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:10 pm

Not surprising about the Chen guys not teaching westerners the real deal, though


ssssh dont tell andy ;)
he's been asking about chen style usage for quite some time.
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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby D_Glenn on Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:54 pm

Sorry, sort of picked some posts to quote, but not really meaning "You" just the figurative, or all-encompassing 'you'.

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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Ian on Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:32 pm

Hi Dan,

I'm reposting here because the "Traditional vs. Modern Arts" topic has turned into grappling vs. striking... and didn't want you to miss it:

Bodywork wrote:Takeda taught Solo training
Sagawa said Takeda told him never to show your solo training. He never said he didn’t do solo training.
Sagawa eventually taught some of them-not all to his people. He in fact taught a more complete version to a few people. Interestingly he stated cleary that only amateurs things they can learn aiki from techniques and he made it quite clear that aiki was about developing an aiki body.
Kodo did solo training
Two of Kodo’s famous students who became teachers did solo training
Those students taught a hand picked few those solo training regimens. They can be shown in detail if you know who. Oddly they are quite similar and yet different, and all based on a theme.
A shihan from the Takumakai went to your teacher’s teacher Tokimune Takeda and he was taught solo training. In his words Tokimune said it was essential.
Solo training was taught by your teacher’s teacher- Tokimune Takeda
Kondo taught solo training publicly at his first visit to America on Sunday afternoon for an hour and half
Tokimune outlined the simple mechanics of one breath training method in an interview.
That breath method is the same as one taught by Sagawa, and also taught by one his students, a kodokai shihan, Okomoto, who talked around and about it but taught a very few, Ueshiba, Ueshiba to at least one prewar student Shirata who talked about it, and Shirata to a few of his students. Shioda taught solo training some of which is on film. Oddly it is very similar to what Kondo taught.


Hi Dan,

I'd attend one of your seminars if there were any closer to Thailand. And I respect your decision to not post videos.

Anyway, I'm curious - do your solo exercises share similarities with those found in Aunkai? How about sumo?

If so, would you mind elaborating briefly on what those similarities and differences are?


Any help would be appreciated. Japan (Aunkai) is easier for me to reach than the US.
Ian

 

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