internal power, etc.

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Bodywork on Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:43 am

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Re: Silk Reeling Chou Si / Chan Si Jin

Postby Bodywork on Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:11 am

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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:24 pm

For the record, I have found bjjer's throws to be pretty weak most of the time, too. But, they are quick to learn and already have some takedowns (I view throws as being different from takedowns). In fact, teaching bjjer's to throw is easier and more fun than teaching people from just about any other background! They work hard and are usually athletic.

I really look forward to the day when I get the opportunity to feel Dan for myself. From what I hear, he has got it in loads.
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Bodywork on Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:01 pm

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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby bailewen on Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:16 pm

Bodywork wrote:If that's not what you meant then, fine. But stating a bjjer throws like your average tomato is accurate how ? Is sincere how?

First of all, original comment wasn't me, it was Patrick.

Second of all, in my explaining the joke (always a sketchy proposition) "not their specialty" is miles away from "throws like your average tomato can".

The whole point of BJJ is to specialize in ground fighting. I'd bet most BJJ schools spend 10 hours teaching groundwork to every 1 or 2 hours teaching throws. Just not at the same level as a Shuai Jiao place (100% throws) or a Judo place (50-90% of time on throws) or a wrestling gym (freaking phenomenal take-downs, widely thought of as the best of all arts for that).

I forget Patrick's background but I seem to remember it being Shuai Jiao. And Ian (also agreeing BJJ folks throws tend to be lacking) is a Judo player? So "good" or "bad" really has to be put in context. And I didn't even say "bad" I just said "not their specialty". That's not a slag. It's just not.

So for me, your tomato comment- particularly framed within the context of the discussions that
As for my posts. I sit through any number of posts here in recent years telling internal guys that they can't fight and that the real jewel of their art - internals- doesn't work in a fight. Yes, you're right, I find it annoying.


Well keep up the good fight then. I always enjoy a bit of decent swagger coming from the IMA side.

I'm just a CMA dude living in China myself. Kind of silly to throw me in as an IMA hater. Mainly just working on a combination of Baji and Taji out here. I'm one of the IMA cheerleaders. If I ever come off more like an IMA hater it's just because I find it annoying how horribly IMA folks and CMA folks in general underestimate the typical MMA mix of skills. The state of the current generation is just shit and I think this blindspot in the CMA community towards BJJ, MMA, boxing etc. it a main reason why. It's like the Qing dynasty closing the doors to the west all over again. They took this big superior attitude "middle kingdom" and all that....and then the East India Trading Company handed them their lunch.

I really do wish I could get a handle on this "internal" thing. (I really don't think I've got it at all, sometimes feels like a waste of time) but sometimes I wanna just smack that smug "I'm sooo internal and superior" attitude right the fuck out of an awful lot of Taiji or Xingyi people I've known.
Click here for my Baji Leitai clip.
www.xiangwuhui.com

p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:00 pm

Bodywork wrote:
Ian Cipperly wrote:For the record, I have found bjjer's throws to be pretty weak most of the time, too. But, they are quick to learn and already have some takedowns (I view throws as being different from takedowns). In fact, teaching bjjer's to throw is easier and more fun than teaching people from just about any other background! They work hard and are usually athletic.

I really look forward to the day when I get the opportunity to feel Dan for myself. From what I hear, he has got it in loads.

Maybe I'm just lucky in that the bjjers I meet have such strong backgrounds in other arts and have more MMA goals than simply rolling.
For what its worth most "throws" don't work well in a MMA format either. There was quite a bit of rethinking and retooling to more Greco Roman wrestling throws and various takedowns ( percentage wise) over judo throws in MMA. Note that even shooting has become a much narrower percentage game these days.

Still my overall point was that you can defend/ counter with muscle, technique or counters.
Or
You may be able to defend/ counter with a body that if soft, absorbs a shit load of force and can remain dynamically stable while producing counters without telegraphing. All attributes of internal power.
Dan


Right on. I agree with most of that. I would say that there are some people who have done splendidly with judo throws and ashi waza in MMA though. Karo, Ronda, Yoshida, etc. They just often lack spectacular striking and are not used to the nogi format. Anyway, what you said last really resonates with my limited experience.
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Bodywork on Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:14 pm

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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby bailewen on Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:44 pm

Well cool then. 8-)

That exchange went surprisingly well.
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p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Taste of Death on Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:07 am

The only way to "grasp" something is to "feel" it. One cannot feel the internal through writings and videos. When one feels the touch of an internal artist than one begins to focus one's practice on that "feeling" not the movements. The movements are just a phenomenon.
"It was already late. Night stood murkily over people, and no one else pronounced words; all that could be heard was a dog barking in some alien village---just as in olden times, as if it existed in a constant eternity." Andrey Platonov
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Bodywork on Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:04 am

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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby Taste of Death on Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:50 pm

Bodywork wrote:
Taste of Death wrote:The only way to "grasp" something is to "feel" it. One cannot feel the internal through writings and videos. When one feels the touch of an internal artist than one begins to focus one's practice on that "feeling" not the movements. The movements are just a phenomenon.

Well...yes. Internals are unmistakably diffetent in feel, than normal movement. Problems arise when men who don't have internals ruin the reputation of the value of internals... By fooling themselves into thinking they do. Self delusion is one thing but then they go on to try and fool others. This I'd damaging because they can't deliver anything meaningfully different in feel.


Anyone who studies with someone who has "it" for 5+ years deludes themselves into believing they have it, too. Many masters don't really want to pass it on because their egos can't handle a few of their students surpassing them. An athletic coach lives for the day when his athletes get it but this is not true in the martial arts. My teacher's master used to record some of their practices but when the students improved by watching the videos he stopped recording.
"It was already late. Night stood murkily over people, and no one else pronounced words; all that could be heard was a dog barking in some alien village---just as in olden times, as if it existed in a constant eternity." Andrey Platonov
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby wiesiek on Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:53 am

hi Dan
While I`m patiently waiting for you to answer, I re-read your and my posts to get it.
so,
in mean time I decided to put here >honest post<.:

I would like to tell you that "makin` money from the art" has no bad meaning in my mouth.
In fact I do it all my life!
Truth is that I quit teaching in my school/soft judo and hard karate/ ~~30 y.a. :), and turn my interest into different branches of the Arts.
And believe me - it is even worst than MA field. /www.consecutiveart.com ,- sorry no english version, and martial/internal ;) content yet, but pictures speaks for itself/.
Also this >Cloudy Prince Face, was about me, when I sow my refection on monitor screen, and eyebrow moves, read it as the reflection of your body language...,
You know, this internet communication go weird sometimes.
ok. `cause it is honest post - I was in intention to get your attention and pull you a little, if it came out bad- I apologize again.
Hoppi`n that I explained myself while doesn`t look like big white thing with the hole, somewhere in the meddle.

Back to the topic:
thru the past 30 years I did mostly "medical qigong" -so, I went as internal as you can go . Now I`m waving into the martial side again - thinking about " solo master blaster set".
I suppose , that such thing IS somewhere, or we can build it up using ultra modern tool - our forum. I`m simply asking you about opinions and help - no string attached.
There are the humans truly interested in practise, not always able to travel .
As I get from different posts there are 3 basic/most important/ solo drills?
or
maybe we can use well known set as the reference for discussion?

best
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby wiesiek on Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:12 am

Because standard 2 weeks of waiting room has passed,
If I may sum it up:
- You dreaming to get it done - do it for yourself, as usual :)
- 3 pillars of the IP :
1. HTFU
2. Do you internal , dammed!
3. Occasionally, check your progress in the local TJ clubs
and
new one - even if you have it, it doesn`t mean , that you are able to use it in the fight,
then, I may add fourth pillar for harmony:
4. When you finishing glueing whole TJ class over the walls, and the teacher on the ceiling, go thru Mongolian tatami. When you done, If your arse is, were it usually should be, , - you may put gold coin on the shelf with IP maestro label . :D
Not so bad for internet exchange -bolt-
For good will, or free lunch - my first warm up exercise;
Connecting water and fire:
palms up -breath in
palms down -breath out
end of the theory, back to work, then.
cheers
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby slowEdie on Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:49 pm

Hello Dan, I have a question that you might address regarding the consumption of alcohol. Does drinking alcohol interfere with the development of "Aiki"? The best teacher I ever had was very anti drinking, any amount. Admittedly he was a self confessed "hippy pinko subversive" and unconventional in most areas, but he wouldn't teach anyone who drank regularly. He claimed alcohol was a major obstruction to developing "nei-gong" ,also for some training, sex was prohibited (but that training, if done properly seemed to sap the libido anyway,"it just hang there"). He didn't mind pot smokers as long as they weren't stoned in class but alcohol was the number one no-no.Just wondering if you or any others had any restrictions during "internal training"?
ps. Are you ever intending to do any seminars in Australia?
Regards edddy
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Re: internal power, etc.

Postby mrtoes on Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:33 am

If memory serves I am pretty sure that not only does Dan does not have a problem with the consumption of alcohol but the consumption thereof does not preclude spontaneous training sessions in bars and restaurants ;D
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