Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Do You Believe in "High Level" IMA?

A) Yes, and I can use the "force" to rain death upon ye of little faith!
2
7%
B) Yes, I've felt the "force" and it was more than extreme flatulence.
10
37%
C) Yes, but I have no legitimate reason for doing so?
1
3%
D) No, but I believe that there are mysteries of the universe yet left unexplained (and really wish I could shoot Qi balls from my eyes whilst levitating, bitches!)...
6
22%
E) No, and the Easter Bunny ain't real either you stupid cunts!
8
29%
 
Total votes : 27

Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:15 am

MaartenSFS wrote:Thank you for clarifying that. I thought Americans were bad with sarcasm (but often need reminding since sarcasm is a huge part of Dutch humour)... until I came to China. At least they don't get up in your face with disagreements, though.

The FAQs were an amusing read.. Especially St. Sooty. That was random as hell!

Although this poll may be sent to BTDT, at least now we know that more people believe in the supernatural than not...

O, WAIT! It's split down the middle now! I know that I said it was a divisive topic, but wouw..

It might not be clear in the wording that A, B, and C are still all about no-touch "qi projections" from, say, 4 feet away. Option B) could be interpreted to mean actually getting hit.

.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:24 am

A is being able to do LKJ. B is having felt it before. C is believing but not being able to do it nor having felt it before. D is not believing but admitting that you would if you experienced it. E is not believing and never intending to regardless of any experiences.
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Re: Do You Believe in "High Level" IMA?

Postby Bao on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:43 am

MaartenSFS wrote:To be very, very clear (if I wasn't before)...
...
I thought that my meaning would have been clear with the recent barrage of threads on this very issue. I'm changing the thread name to reflect this clarity. If any of you need to change your answer please do so.


No, the first name of the thread was not clear at all. I thought you wanted to have a serious discussion on high level skill. The main forum is for serious discussions, not derailing threads, remember?

There are many different things discussed on RSF as being "High Skill" LKJ isn't even one in the the top ten list of these. If you want to write or ask about LKJ, you should go straight to BTDT and create the thread there. No one takes LKJ serious here and it has been discussed over and over and over again since the very start of the first EF forum.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:30 am

This is just a poll in response to several other threads [that you didn't read?]. I just can't fathom that you thought a serious discussion would come out of my not even slightly serious OP. It was a yes or no question. Choose one and get over it.

Update: The majority of the forum believes in or has obtained the LKJ skill.
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Re: Do You Believe in "High Level" IMA?

Postby Zonker on Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:41 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:To be very, very clear (if I wasn't before)...

The question is... Do you believe in supernatural abilities where it is not required to touch the other person to inflict damage?


Sorry, my bad. That wasn't clear to me at all when you first started this topic. Nope, I don't believe in any "supernatural" abilities to hit a person with qi/chi/ki from six feet away (no touch stuff) or cause them to bounce away from a qi/chi/ki "energy" field. I have, however, trained with some very accomplished martial artists and personally experienced some exceptionally subtle body mechanics, on their parts, that produced inexplicable end results when I attacked them. That's what I thought you were referring to when asking about "High Level" stuff.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:41 pm

No worries. It seems that the skeptics won in the end (barely).. :)
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby meeks on Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:14 pm

one of my first kung fu instructors could do some crazy stuff. I was taking private lessons from him and we would wait in the basement for him to start class. usually we'd be training, but one time we were seated on the floor, on our butts, cross legged. When I saw him entering the room I leaned on 1 hand to prop myself up, and in 1 step he glided across the floor (about 6 feet - he did that crazy stuff often) and gently rested a hand on my shoulder. Despite my struggles, I couldn't get my feet underneath me as he had 'stuck' me to the floor. When I finally stopped trying to get off my butt, I saw him open has hand, fingers wide, with just his palm touching my shoulder - next thing I knew he raised his hand and I was hoisted up and off the floor - the 3 other students said I was about 6 inches off the ground and he was simply touching me with his palm on my shoulder, fingers still wide apart.

So do I believe in qi techniques from a distance? i don't discount it. Do I believe in qi techniques that defy physics? most definitely.

this is the same teacher that had legitimate qing gong, not simply parkour style techniques.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby grzegorz on Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:21 pm

The only empty force video you ever need to see.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby Steve James on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:13 pm

Ya know, I had started to write a post mentioning that "qi" could be electromagnetic, a product of chemical reactions. After all, humans do emit "energy." Ok, but, it can't be like gravity because gravity works 100% of the time on everyone, everywhere, anytime. Moreover, of the "four forces," gravity is by far the weakest. Anyway, the key issue for me is that there is no need to "believe" in gravity. It's existence doesn't depend on my belief; and, that's the problem with Dillman's explanation of why it didn't work on the chemistry prof.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:07 pm

It's existence doesn't depend on my belief;


but it does depend on one to experience it.
could we say the same for those born blind? that color is not real?

not talking about Dillman, saw one of his demos in person, from my eye it always looked like at some point he would hit the person in the neck stopping the blood flow.

in regards to KJ, I would not call it a belief, nor would any that I know. Its an experience that one tends to question, even after having experienced it. I used to question what I felt, and reactions to it, but stopped after a couple of yrs and as I begin to develop a sense of it myself.


IME, people I know are very astute nobody is being fooled nor wants to be, many have decades of MA practice and are quite accomplished with there own arts. The LKJ that people are down on is a small part of an over all process.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby Steve James on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:30 pm

but it does depend on one to experience it.
could we say the same for those born blind? that color is not real?


A blind person doesn't have to believe that there is a color red (i.e. 4×1014 Hz). It is always that frequency, no matter where it is in the entire universe.

However, put it like this, a religious person may say that God is something that is necessary to experience. Fine. But, does that mean that I have to believe in Hanuman and Ganesh because some Buddhists and Hindus experience them? Belief is fine, but it shouldn't be confused with science. There's no way to disprove the existence of things that people believe in. It's like asking a Christian if there was a way to disprove the existence of his God. Btw, this doesn't mean that his God doesn't exist.

Again, as I've said before, I "believe" that most of the videos are "real," in the sense that they actually happened. The pertinent question is "how" it happened. Clearly people say they know how it happened, but often their explanation is "supernatural." And, many people just don't accept supernatural explanations. Now, whether they can explain using non-supernatural concepts is another thing. The believers may be perfectly rational and intelligent, just like the Pope. Otoh, disbelievers aren't irrational either.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:13 pm

in the interest of discussion

no one is asking any to believe in anything. at least I am not.
what I have said is that this is something I've experienced and have been working on for awhile.
much if not all that is seen in the clips was an everyday thing, nothing special it was just another part of the practice.

the way its explained was using the TCM model, the explanations where very gen in nature.
the goal was not LKJ, it was just a part of the over all practice, as someone posted those that eventually are able to use it
are quite few.

looking at the comments most amount to they have not felt it, therefor its not real.
what I have said is that the processes by which it works are just an extensions of what many say they do already
in their practices. I could post clips of people in other arts aikido, systema, ect who appear to be doing and showing the same processes at work. kind of pointless. So far most attempts at this are ignored. :-\

but it shouldn't be confused with science.

the title of this topic could have been "do you believe in qi" what would many say then? kong jin, starts from this concept/reality. If this concept is not true as in by experience then much of the other points would not make much sense.

a lot of it IMO can be explained using physics,

physics only gets one so far, but it goes a long way in explaining what most see happening.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby Steve James on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:26 pm

no one is asking any to believe in anything.


Well, the thread specifically asks "whether" anyone believes. I only commented on the issue of belief and what it means when someone believes. My point was that it was completely different from believing in gravity. No matter what anyone argues, the believer in lkj --whatever that really is-- will always refer to his experience. So, there's really no point in arguing with believers or against non-believers. Any argument that doesn't express belief will be rejected.

Anyway, like I said, I don't disbelieve the videos. I couldn't tell fake ones from real ones anyway. If the systema guys thought they were doing the same thing, imo they would say so. I mean, if they explained what they did the same way. Of course, that means that the tcma guy's explanation should also be the same. One would expect that the Russians would talk about using qi or something similar. Then everyone would be happy.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby Michael on Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:23 am

meeks wrote:one of my first kung fu instructors could do some crazy stuff. I was taking private lessons from him and we would wait in the basement for him to start class. usually we'd be training, but one time we were seated on the floor, on our butts, cross legged. When I saw him entering the room I leaned on 1 hand to prop myself up, and in 1 step he glided across the floor (about 6 feet - he did that crazy stuff often) and gently rested a hand on my shoulder. Despite my struggles, I couldn't get my feet underneath me as he had 'stuck' me to the floor. When I finally stopped trying to get off my butt, I saw him open has hand, fingers wide, with just his palm touching my shoulder - next thing I knew he raised his hand and I was hoisted up and off the floor - the 3 other students said I was about 6 inches off the ground and he was simply touching me with his palm on my shoulder, fingers still wide apart.

So do I believe in qi techniques from a distance? i don't discount it. Do I believe in qi techniques that defy physics? most definitely.

this is the same teacher that had legitimate qing gong, not simply parkour style techniques.

Cool story, Dave. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Do You Believe in Linkongjin?

Postby wiesiek on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:41 pm

Speaki` of the story :

When I was with my friend on personal meeting with Trungpa Rinpohe /Tibetan medicine highest level/, I noticed, that He picked two small packages of the herbs from his bag, in one move, when we are say`n "hallo" while entering the room.
After we referred our problems to him,/different ones/ we get "standard" blessing /crown point touch -rock- /and personal herbs - small bag of tiny herbal balls.
..."Eat a little portion every day. Everything will be OK after you eat them..."
... We left his room,
door close,
and
WE get so strong >energy punch< , that literally had been seated :o
to add weirdness to this, we felt like "on high" whole week or so after,
and problem disappeared, but of course.

it was before I became "cheese hughers"
then,
I believe that there is, yes there is LKJ somewhere, even in our dimension available ,
but
really only few has it
and
you not have a chance to find manual ;D
anyway
when you close to Tibetan Lamas High "rank" - go for blessing -joint-
- cannot go wrong ! -oldman- :D
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