the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Please leave your name if you are willing to openly discuss this topic and have your opinion on the matter known so that we know who's who and forego the bickering and derailing.

Please don't be offended by the lightheartedness! I voted D.

What is 'high level" IMA? It is either people are functional in use of IMA or not, to my understanding

Crikey this should be interesting. Just for the record I don't believe in anything, I am merely a figment of your imagination

MaartenSFS wrote:Please don't be offended by the lightheartedness!

I'm not offended by the lightheartedness. I am offended by the unnecessarily crude language. It may be appropriate while having a drink with your buddies, but it really isn't appropriate in a public forum of mixed gender and various age ranges. It is possible to have your lightheartedness while still maintaining appropriate language that isn't offensive.

So. you're asking whether anyone can refine the foundational basics to a degree where it feels like "magic" to others?

Do I believe in high level martial arts? There will always be people who's martial skill is more developed than others. It's like asking 'do you believe in tall buildings?'

Why don't you ask the question you meant to ask?

There is a saying in one or other Japanese martial art--I've forgotten which one--"High skill is the basics perfected." That sums up my view of the matter. Let us say, for example, that someone's taiji is so good that he can parry a strong attack with something that looks easy and gentle. Peng jin not punk jin. That is "high level" in my opinion.

The idea of high level must not extend beyond what humans can actually achieve with work and study, for if you do that you create a term that refers to nothing. "Qi blast" belongs in the same semantic category as "the present king of France." You can talk about either if you like, but any example you bring forth will be an imposter.

Well, to quote a famous gentleman from Arkansas, "define high level" (...or something like that)

But, to answer what I think is the question, given the context of recent discussions: yes and no.

Seemingly effortless power steamrolling over the "low level" training dummy, and a more subtle skill effortlessly uprooting/manipulating said dummy are real. No touch stuff and the barely touching hopping vampire bullshit are not. IMHO, YMMV.

Now, what does the real stuff look like? The first thing should look like the dummy is straining to stop a slowly moving truck. The second depends a bit on the format it's shown in. Slowly uprooting a partner who's applying a continuous linear force through light contact can look a bit fake, though it isn't. But that's for training (simple feedback to learn the skill) or didactic illustration purposes, as a realistic opponent would break off and/or change his power input when feeling he's being manipulated like that. The realistic version, like in the first case, looks more solid.

Which is why, IMO, certain hotly debated videos showing people hopping like crazy on barely substantial contact, are a mere imitation of what this "high level" skill by brainwashed cooperative students trying to make their teacher look good. And don't get me started on LKJ, that's just disgraceful nonsense.

There. I've said it. Please discuss

"High skill is the basics perfected."

Agreed, though one can work on the basics all one's life.

My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin likes to use "擓抱别(Kuai Bao Bie) - knee lift embrace followed by hip throw with leg block".

He could

- lift one of his knee below his 300 lb opponent's hip and lift his opponent up and off the ground while standing on one leg,
- swing his opponent,
- put his opponent behind his back, and
- throw his opponent over his back.

A very fancy move that you just don't see anybody ever done that on the mat (he can use that move effective in tournament).

David C. K. Lin always said that my "single leg" was "low level". But I had used my "single leg" to win 7 rounds in a role in one tournament. One day I asked my teacher about the definition of "high level". He said, "Anything that can work on your opponent is high level skill. Anything that cannot work on your opponent is low level skill."

So I don't believe such thing as "high level" whether we are talking about "internal" or external. If you can make your girl to come 3 times in a role, you have "high level" skill in sex, otherwise, you are "low level" by definition.

Yes I believe in high level skill. IMHO, high level skill is to always be able to keep the basics, to always remain true to and stay inside your martial shenfa. When you can breath, stay rooted, relaxed yet being agile in any circumstance, in any situation of threat, well then you are advanced.

"high level". He said, "Anything that can work on your opponent is high level skill. Anything that cannot work on your opponent is low level skill."

+1 And yeah, this as well.

Hmmm, does that mean that gun is higher level than sword?
Two guys fight: one has a baseball bat; who's higher level?
Are we all high level until someone beats our butt?

yeniseri wrote:What is 'high level" IMA? It is either people are functional in use of IMA or not, to my understanding

Look at a number of recent threads for "high level" skills.

charles wrote:

MaartenSFS wrote:Please don't be offended by the lightheartedness!

I'm not offended by the lightheartedness. I am offended by the unnecessarily crude language. It may be appropriate while having a drink with your buddies, but it really isn't appropriate in a public forum of mixed gender and various age ranges. It is possible to have your lightheartedness while still maintaining appropriate language that isn't offensive.

Sorry, but I was under the impression that all of the people on here were adult men and the name does include "rum". I wanted to lighten up the rather tense mood.

Lu da wrote:Do I believe in high level martial arts? There will always be people who's martial skill is more developed than others. It's like asking 'do you believe in tall buildings?'

Why don't you ask the question you meant to ask?

I'm pretty sure it's all there in the options...