the Michael, Greg and Azer show

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

the Michael, Greg and Azer show

Postby grzegorz on Tue May 06, 2014 1:08 am

True that Andy. In fact did you know that Eastern Europeans are so tolerant that they there were only 40 attacks on gays last year? As opposed to thousands in the US?

I was wondering why "some" ran from the "Russians" thread like rats off of a sinking ship and went elsewhere to start a new thread on a topic which we've covered extensively on the previous thread, only to find out that the anti-gay propaganda laws in Russia are not the conspiracy, it's the reporting of these laws which are the conspiracy! Here's some dribble if you can stomach it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oudZhsiNB94

It seems that even Alex Jones can sympathize with these laws.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4zKyvxD_VI

Well at least this thread got one thing correct, unsubstantiated indeed! To think I was told I was hallucinating! Ha! I guess that is what they call facts these days.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue May 06, 2014 1:20 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby Azer on Tue May 06, 2014 9:15 am

grzegorz wrote:I was wondering why "some" ran from the "Russians" thread like rats off of a sinking ship and went elsewhere to start a new thread on a topic which we've covered extensively on the previous thread, only to find out that the anti-gay propaganda laws in Russia are not the conspiracy, it's the reporting of these laws which are the conspiracy! Here's some dribble if you can stomach it.


::)

Hmmm... perhaps it is because you keep derailing Ukraine based discussions with stuff like this i.e. anti-gay propaganda laws in Russia.

or it could be due to the fact that you seem to think its ok to launch personal attacks against people who don't share your view and make bizarre FBI related threats.

or maybe it has something to do with you not addressing or more like completely ignoring the majority of the evidence presented against your arguments.

Take your pick...
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby grzegorz on Tue May 06, 2014 9:59 am

Az,

You have your views and I have mine.

You guys insult me and I insult you.

What's the problem?

I read all the posts but there is no way I could respond everything anymore than I could respond everything on RSF. Some of us have kids, work, training and bills to pay, you know?
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby Azer on Tue May 06, 2014 10:06 am

Pffft.... strange how the insults and thread derailing all came from you ;)

Even in this thread you equate those who didn't go along with your derail, to "rats".

I don't know what sort of discussion you expect to have while behaving like this.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby Michael on Tue May 06, 2014 4:31 pm

Greg, the Junior G-Man Snitch. How interesting you chose the word rat. You're the only fella on RSF who needs two, count them (2), accounts to stalk me. Which one am I talking to now, the snitch or the stalker?

Watch out everybody, mind your p's and q's, Junior G-Man Greg will snitch you to the FBI if he doesn't like what you say, or maybe he'll just go crying to the mods again if you commit a thought crime. I think he's got a man crush on Janet Napolitano, and he loves Big Sister so much that he'll probably do it pro bono.

Image

As I've been telling you for some time, G-Man, your posts make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Did you even watch the clip you put up? It goes into detail about the fact that Russia has no anti-gay laws. I can't even begin to follow your alleged train of thought, which is why I bowed out of the other thread. Maybe you think NATO should include Ukraine because Russia has more legal protection for gays than the USA? That sounds about right for your line of reasoning.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby Steve James on Tue May 06, 2014 4:57 pm

Did you even watch the clip you put up? It goes into detail about the fact that Russia has no anti-gay laws.


It didn't really argue that, though. The vid's argument was that no mention of the word "gay" appears in the law. He claims that, in fact, these new laws are more liberal toward gays precisely because they don't identify gays at all whereas the old regional laws did. What the new laws do prohibit, however, is homosexual propaganda, especially when it is aimed at children. He makes some other arguments, but let's stick to that one for the moment. The problem is how "propaganda" is defined or not defined. I.e., a gay-pride parades or other demonstrations of homosexuality can/could be considered homosexual propaganda.

Ok, the narrator's primary argument is that the concern about homosexual laws in Russia is misplaced and only the product of an anti-Russian campaign encouraged by geopolitical interests and the economic interests of western media. I.e., (per Alex Jones's concerns) the western media is attempting to sell homosexuality or, more specifically, values that promote homosexuality. So, they need a market. (Personally, I think that is far-fetched. But, even if true, I don't believe that anyone (heterosexual) can be turned into a homosexual).

Another point the narrator tries to make is that Russian laws (about the gays they doesn't mention) are actually more liberal than American laws. That's a damn fair point. However, the tendency in the US has been to remove legislation that discriminate against gays. What's fair is that there are plenty of people who share Alex Jones's opinion that they are being forced to accept a lifestyle. Of course, it's really that they're being forced to accept that someone else has a different lifestyle or love style. Anyway, one can always point to our Westboro Baptist churches and be totally correct about the anti-gay sentiment in the US. That doesn't mean that it's better for gays in Russia, at all.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby grzegorz on Tue May 06, 2014 5:16 pm

Michael,

Old friend, stalking you? Really? Because I chose to engage in conversations with you and we disagree I'm a stalker?

Btw, are we playing by prison rules now? We already had this conversation and no one gives a damn about an internet battle from two years ago but you. So keep trying your internet bullying because I'm not going anywhere.

To me your personal attacks are just further evidence that your arguments hold no water.

And yes, I watched the video and it's a total spin. Much like your allegations that the Ukrainians, who don't want Putin running their country, are nazis.

Let's talk about nazi like activities. Since the world doesn't care about gays how does the works feel about the treatmentTartars?

Anyway, glad to see you're finally willing to take up the anti-gay propaganda law discussion.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue May 06, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby grzegorz on Tue May 06, 2014 5:29 pm

Btw, Michael as always you can PM me your abuse. Because in case you haven't noticed I really don't give a damn what others on this board might think of me. I see it as I see it and I stand behind everything I say.

It's odd how polite you're in our PMs. Yet when I ask you what's up you say we're just debating the topic.

If you'd like I can post your PMs here. Since you seem to want your hate for me out in the public. Why not everything?
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby grzegorz on Tue May 06, 2014 5:32 pm

Before you freak out you should know I won't do that, because again no one really gives a s***, myself included.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby gzregorz on Tue May 06, 2014 11:28 pm

Steve James wrote:
Did you even watch the clip you put up? It goes into detail about the fact that Russia has no anti-gay laws.


It didn't really argue that, though. The vid's argument was that no mention of the word "gay" appears in the law. He claims that, in fact, these new laws are more liberal toward gays precisely because they don't identify gays at all whereas the old regional laws did. What the new laws do prohibit, however, is homosexual propaganda, especially when it is aimed at children. He makes some other arguments, but let's stick to that one for the moment. The problem is how "propaganda" is defined or not defined. I.e., a gay-pride parades or other demonstrations of homosexuality can/could be considered homosexual propaganda.

Ok, the narrator's primary argument is that the concern about homosexual laws in Russia is misplaced and only the product of an anti-Russian campaign encouraged by geopolitical interests and the economic interests of western media. I.e., (per Alex Jones's concerns) the western media is attempting to sell homosexuality or, more specifically, values that promote homosexuality. So, they need a market. (Personally, I think that is far-fetched. But, even if true, I don't believe that anyone (heterosexual) can be turned into a homosexual).

Another point the narrator tries to make is that Russian laws (about the gays they doesn't mention) are actually more liberal than American laws. That's a damn fair point. However, the tendency in the US has been to remove legislation that discriminate against gays. What's fair is that there are plenty of people who share Alex Jones's opinion that they are being forced to accept a lifestyle. Of course, it's really that they're being forced to accept that someone else has a different lifestyle or love style. Anyway, one can always point to our Westboro Baptist churches and be totally correct about the anti-gay sentiment in the US. That doesn't mean that it's better for gays in Russia, at all.


True, that even at 7:00 the man tried to argue that there were three recorded arrests of people challenging the law but says that this is hardly a purge. Of course it's obvious that even he is having a difficult time spitting out those words. Obviously if it can happen to 3 people it can happen to anyone who speaks out. It's intellectual dishonesty and even the speaker is aware of that. (Funny that when 1 US citizen was killed by a drone strike infowars wasn't arguing that is was just 1, which again is a foolish argument anyway.)

As in the Penn and Teller show we can clearly see that what's being played on is mistakes in the media. Yes, the media makes mistakes as it always does and the speaker is taking that to mean that everything the media has reported is wrong.

Yet, the issue here is the atmosphere it creates in that country. Attacks on LGBT people are happening and the police aren't doing anything to stop it. Anyone who watched that half hour documentary on the main thread, can't deny it. Here's is one of many news articles on the subject, with some photos below of teenagers being lured through the net to meet another gay man only to find a gang of Nazi thugs waiting for them to torture and beat them until they "admit" they are pedophiles to world.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/clairepires/hun ... -in-russia

Image

Image

Image

Yes, the speaker has one thing correct and that is the US is far from perfect but at least in the US these thugs would be found guilty of a hate crime in a court of law. Besides which, if the speaker truly is concerned about gays in the US and the West then he should be concerned about gays everywhere.

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Last edited by gzregorz on Tue May 06, 2014 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby Michael on Wed May 07, 2014 1:56 am

grzegorz wrote:Michael,

Old friend, stalking you? Really? Because I chose to engage in conversations with you and we disagree I'm a stalker?

Greg, you did nothing but derail your own thread on Ukraine as a few people told you and you have introduced a completely irrelevant nonsense about treatment of gays in Russia, which you have brought into this thread. I want nothing to do with you or this topic, it has nothing to do with Ukraine.

And yes, you are a snitch and your fixation on me is definitely the early stages of stalking. You've got some crossed wires and they're not my problem.
Michael

 

Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby Michael on Wed May 07, 2014 2:01 am

Steve James wrote:
Did you even watch the clip you put up? It goes into detail about the fact that Russia has no anti-gay laws.


It didn't really argue that, though. The vid's argument was that no mention of the word "gay" appears in the law.

What's fair is that there are plenty of people who share Alex Jones's opinion that they are being forced to accept a lifestyle.

I watched the first video with Watson and it didn't help me understand what this topic is doing in either Ukraine thread. I didn't watch the Alex Jones clip.

BTW, I'm not interested in the Russia-gay topic in the context of a civil war in Ukraine. I don't see any connection. It would be great if we could stay on the topic of this thread, or something relevant to it.
Michael

 

Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby Michael on Wed May 07, 2014 3:55 am

grzegorz wrote:Btw, Michael as always you can PM me your abuse. Because in case you haven't noticed I really don't give a damn what others on this board might think of me. I see it as I see it and I stand behind everything I say.

It's odd how polite you're in our PMs. Yet when I ask you what's up you say we're just debating the topic.

If you'd like I can post your PMs here. Since you seem to want your hate for me out in the public. Why not everything?


grzegorz wrote:Before you freak out you should know I won't do that, because again no one really gives a s***, myself included.


So you're threatening, or not threatening (because you don't "gives a s***") to post my polite PM's here in the thread about Jews in the Ukraine. Very weird.

What you missed from my terse PMs was the subtext of minimal communication in order to be polite responses to your initial messages to me, and nothing else. I was hoping you might come to your senses, but doesn't look like it. Your absurd persecution complex just keeps enlarging. Get a grip, man, and stay the fuck away from me. I hate snitches.
Michael

 

Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby grzegorz on Wed May 07, 2014 8:19 am

Just PM me Michael.

I've been to high school once already. Even if a thousand Udels disagreed with me I'd still be here.

Btw, don't worry about the prison rules. We could never run in the same gang.

You do realize that since your arguments about nazis are week and unproven you do realize you don't need to respond, don't you?

Believe me Michael, this debate is bigger than me an you. The only reason I keep addressing you is because you keep trying to cyber bully me but to no avail. If you want we could arm wrestle though, perhaps then I'll feel intimidated. Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.
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Re: Unsubstantiated Claim: Dozens of Jews Murdered in Odessa

Postby grzegorz on Wed May 07, 2014 8:21 am

Just for record when I PM Michael Udel to resolve his issues in private these are the responses I get.

Michael wrote:
grzegorz wrote:feel free to post abuse here

Don't want to abuse you in any way, just responding to you in the discussions.
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