Israels fake history..?

[Finny]

"Quoting from the 13th tribe"? Really? Seriously?

The Book of Genesis lists only 12 sons of Jacob, who became the first patriarchs of the 12 Tribes of Israel. There is no 13th tribe!

Did you actually watch the clip doc?

He's quoting from a pop history book called "the 13th tribe" - sorry I was lazy with my punctuation

We were questioning the creation of my country at my university the other day - the people who 'settled/took' this land had no historical connection - being a descendent of them, I'm not horribly offended by the discussion. I don't see how it's racist - although the notion that the white folks who took this land were at fault for the way they did it is a strongly held one.

It really seems a stretch to classify questioning of the jewish connection to the land they now occupy as Israel as racist, is all. Sensitive subject, sure, but so what, deal with it. If what he says is ridiculous, point that out and leave it at that, there's no need to play that card.

[emptycloud]

Yes, Rich I am quite used to your use of ah..."humor" and oddly childish smugness when it comes to disagreements in this forum. Most people post things to start discussions, which means they are actually willing to respect and listen to others. It's your way or the highway.

Racism and bias have no place among decent martial artists.

Hey Al,

Not disagreeing with anyone, about anything, just enjoying the open and liberating pastures of "off topic".

yours respectfully

Big ears

You're a disgrace.You spout all this Aikido harmonious relationship crap and then you post blatantly racist material.

This thread should be removed and you should be sanctioned.

hi Al

... you want me repressed and punished for exploring what I find on the net within a very open minded forum.. really..? sheesh, i'm going back to zero hedge.

...Cops everywhere.

Rich

[wiesiek]

any topic on the forum should be allowed for discussion
if is posted in right section,
however
some are more sensitive, Jesus family tree is one of them

my 2 eu c with the roots

[Orpheus]

In general, I don't really respect anyone who posts a link to a video and thinks they are "starting a dialogue". Especially when posting on a controversial topic.*

Posting a link someone else's gibberish, not providing perspective or your insight, is begging to get called out on a lack or originality. And your beliefs are going to be associated with those in the link. It certainly is borderline trolling.

As for open-mindedness, that doesn't mean people abandon their judgment. Post something offensive, expect to get treated like you posted something offensive. The economy of ideas is beautiful.

*TnT, MA video links are an exception to this rule.

[lazyboxer]

Intolerance of dissenting views is one of the distinguishing hallmarks of a closed society. Icke may be a dickhead but his arguments deserve the same consideration as any other public figure, particularly since he likes to draw his support from others with far more compelling claims to scholarly objectivity than his.

Should I dismiss a neighbour's warning that my house is burning simply because I don't like the shape of his nose?

[emptycloud]

In general, I don't really respect anyone who posts a link to a video and thinks they are "starting a dialogue". Especially when posting on a controversial topic.*

Posting a link someone else's gibberish, not providing perspective or your insight, is begging to get called out on a lack or originality. And your beliefs are going to be associated with those in the link. It certainly is borderline trolling.

As for open-mindedness, that doesn't mean people abandon their judgment. Post something offensive, expect to get treated like you posted something offensive. The economy of ideas is beautiful.

*TnT, MA video links are an exception to this rule.

Hi Orpheus,

Fortunately I am not looking for anyones respect in this world, would be a rather sorry pursuit. I am not looking for originality either.

Is it really such an offensive clip. Why is it so offensive and to whom..?

Perhaps I am a racist in denial, as a white guy with a African/Italian wife for over tens years, I must be one of those really weird racists.

Heck, one of my work colleagues is Jewish and has just come back from visiting family in Israel, they sat on the beach watching missiles v's missiles. I do not have any hard feeling towards the guy.

To believe you are from this tribe or that tribe is simply pavlov's dog in plato's cave.

I don't feel one should provide perspective when uploading somebody else's gibberish. You do, big deal.

I studied art for many years the most powerful work affected me prior to any background or interpretation of the work.

Pretty soon Gaza will be rubble and the Palestinian people will be wandering the world looking for a homeland, a refuge, how weird is this world, very.

R.I.P Gaza. Peace to Israel.

one love - no fear

Rich

[Michael]

Intolerance of dissenting views is one of the distinguishing hallmarks of a closed society. Icke may be a dickhead but his arguments deserve the same consideration as any other public figure, particularly since he likes to draw his support from others with far more compelling claims to scholarly objectivity than his.

Should I dismiss a neighbour's warning that my house is burning simply because I don't like the shape of his nose?

Point taken that the truth shouldn't be discarded like the baby with the bath water, but IMO Icke deserves ridicule for so many specific reasons that he can generally be dismissed.

[Steve James]

Icke doesn't need to be ridiculed. It's the arguments and claims that can be ridiculed. Now, afa his (or anyone's) freedom of speech, I tend to think that it's better to let him speak and then let him know that he's shunned. However, on that note, I always point out that I'm just a guest here (on RSF) and if the society wants to shun me or make me an outcast they have that right. I don't think that the people on RSF have to submit to reading or listening to anti-Semitic (or anti-anything) material. Putting stuff that is offensive into BTDT seems a very democratic way of doing things. People can still read it if they choose. Anyway, I generally don't follow links in posts because I'd rather hear what the person posting thinks.

[Peacedog]

As some folks on this board are aware, I've spent a fair amount of time in the Jerusalem area over the years.

Here are some observations on this issue...

First, the reflexive hatred of the Jews displayed by Europeans never makes any sense to me. If you dig hard enough into the NGOs and various European non-religious groups over there (EU, UN, etc.) they all hate the Israelis on some level. I could never get a real explanation out of them behind why this is, it just is.

Second, the Palestinians are a defeated people who have lost every war they ever fought with anyone else, yet refuse to accept their defeated status and negotiate in good faith with the victors. This is true of both their relationship with the Israelis and the Jordanians. Until the Palestinians come to terms with this fact, their lives will suck and the victors over them have no real incentive to do otherwise. Just like any other group of people who lost a war. The winner sets the rules, too bad for you.

Third, Arabs in general, and Palestinians in particular, engage in a lot of bullshit behavior that simply speaks to their personal weakness and is why, world wide, they are always someone else's bitch. Lobbing unguided missiles at urban areas, throwing their infants in front of coalition convoys, sending out retarded people as suicide bombers, and routinely having sex with young boys are all things Arabs do on their own without any outside encouragement. All of which are why, when given a choice, most groups just put a wall around these barbarians and leave them there. That wall can be physical, like around Gaza, or intangible like a lot of the visa restrictions people from the Middle East face when going abroad. The end result is the same. No one wants to deal with these clowns. When they grow up and begin to act like civilized people, they will be welcome to join the rest of the world. Until then, go rot in your box.

Fourth, the idea that any group of people are the rightful heirs to any piece of land is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. The Palestinians have no more claim to the land in the area than the Romans or the Israelis for that matter. People fight for things they want. The winner gets to keep it. If you want something and aren't strong enough to hold onto it, stop being a pussy and get stronger. The Palestinians and the Israelis fought. The Israelis won. Too bad. No one gives a crap about what is fair. Sometimes people will care about what is just. Mostly people just care about who won.

Finally, when people ask me about the Palestinian/Israeli issue, I usually respond as follows, "The Israelis are a bunch of dicks, but they are dicks with a point. The Palestinians are sympathetic, until you get to know them."

The end.

Rant ended.

[vehu]

[Dajenarit]

Amen to that Vehu.

[allen2saint]

In general, I don't really respect anyone who posts a link to a video and thinks they are "starting a dialogue". Especially when posting on a controversial topic.*

Posting a link someone else's gibberish, not providing perspective or your insight, is begging to get called out on a lack or originality. And your beliefs are going to be associated with those in the link. It certainly is borderline trolling.

As for open-mindedness, that doesn't mean people abandon their judgment. Post something offensive, expect to get treated like you posted something offensive. The economy of ideas is beautiful.

*TnT, MA video links are an exception to this rule.

Thank you.

[Dajenarit]

Well there was obviously never a complete consensus that it was offensive. Who gets to decide that for everyone anyway?

He seems to have done pretty well starting a dialog though maybe not what 'cloud' expected it would be, but I've seen discussions started with pictures or a couple words so who gets to decide how a proper conversation is started?

[allen2saint]

The original post was not in BTDT. In fact, I never read BTDT until I happened to check and found the post had been relocated here.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I would have thought a website about martial arts would not allow blatantly racist material to be posted. I would say the same for the anti-Islam post. I come here to read MA stuff and since I am a member here, registering my offense, which stems from my ethical and religious convictions, should be at least as respected as emptycloud's quite obvious bias against Jewish people, which is evident by the post. People have a right to their religious beliefs and their legitimacy as Jews, Christians, Muslims or Martians should not be a topic.

To poorly paraphrase Pastor Neimoller, when they come for the socialists, then the trade unions, then the Jews, etc you don't say anything because you're not any of those things, and by the time they come for you, nobody's left to speak on your behalf.

[Steve James]

Afa this thread, only a link was posted. I wouldn't expect moderators to follow every link to find if there's material that's objectionable to someone. Even the op might not have watched the entire video; so, I don't think he should be held responsible for its content. Now, if someone posts stuff of his own, then calling him out is appropriate.