Israels fake history..?

[Michael]

As much as I'm uninterested in Icke, now I want to watch the video to see if you all are over-reacting. Gawd, Icke is boring.

[yeniseri]

1 Main point is that if you drag the jawbone from the lion, you earned it!
2. That being said, the reality is that the Israelis have done their best to co-exist with the Palestinians but it appears that the Palestinians have always negotiated in bad faith and it is getting worse.
3. Land for peace has always been that the Palestinians abide by the treaties but they have never done so.
4. All sovereign nations have the right of self defense.
5. Even other Arabs and Muslims do not trust the Palestinians. I wonder why?
6. The Golden Rule (Interesting Mr Silver ) he who has the gold, makes the rules.
7. I would think that spending money to educate women and children as opposed to investing in weapons of war, would be far more advantageous in the long run. Jus' me!
8. It is sad to see women and children being killed but could it have been prevented! If not, why not! Why hide behind the skirts of women and children and call yourself a warrior

[Dajenarit]

The statements that people have been making about Palestinians here and elsewhere on this forum is what astounds me. With no sense of irony. No historical truth either.

[Michael]

The video of Icke is nothing to get concerned about. He makes two points, citing references from Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe and Schlomo Sand's book.

Icke says:
#1. The Jews in Israel today and since 1948 have no historical or genetic connection to that land because they came from Khazaria in the Caucuses.

#2. The term "anti-semitism" is incorrect because it is applied to the Ashkenazhi Jews, who are not from the Semitic language group, which consists more of Arabs than Jews anyway.

I think the video is pretty tame and pretty lame opinion piece. If it's coded langauge, it's under my radar. Nothing to get your panties in a bunch about, and no reason to give Icke the attention.

[Dajenarit]

The video of Icke is nothing to get concerned about. He makes two points, citing references from Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe and Schlomo Sand's book.

Thats pretty much what I think too. Whether you agree or disagree with it, should we really be talkin about censuring and calling people racist for it? Its not that serious and its not something that hasn't been discussed for years especially in Israel.

[allen2saint]

No, of course there's nothing really offensive about a "fake history" or saying a group is part of a conspiracy that gives them and their home legitimacy...He's "just pointing somethig out..."

This excerpt from US Republican strategist Lee Atwater, recorded without his knowledge:

You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968, you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

Icke's strategy is clear and being complicit in spreading it is also clear.

[Dajenarit]

Lol Wow. Yea Lee Atwater is really helping your argument as the arbiter of decency.

[Dajenarit]

This might give some perspective to what the OP said. Or not. Its a discussion about a book called The Generals Son that also caused alot of positive and negative debate in Israel from what I read. Of course some people wanted to figuratively and literally hang these guys but the Israels seem open-minded enough to at least broach the topics and they're the subjects of the books. I don't think Jews and Israelis need internet decency nannies. They're pretty tough people.

[allen2saint]

Lol Wow. Yea Lee Atwater is really helping your argument as the arbiter of decency.

What's the difference between the outright anti-semitism in posting this topic anyway, "Israel's fake history" or the video, using its coded slurs and me showing an example from history about what this kind of thing means? Your example above explicitly connects the feeling of privelege of the Israeli's to the feeling of privelege of whites in America. So, if anything, you proved my point for me.Saying that the Palestinians were displaced and are oppressed and recognizing the forces that made that happen is a common discussion among historians. It's fact and no one disputes that.

But Icke's goal is quite different, as was the goal of the OP. Why not float out a little video about how they aren'tr even really Jews? Why not say they are hiding this fake history that, if we knew it, would show how horrible they are? He has regularly connected Judaism to his world control conspiracy...which is old school Anti-Semitism.

[emptycloud]

Lol Wow. Yea Lee Atwater is really helping your argument as the arbiter of decency.

What's the difference between the outright anti-semitism in posting this topic anyway, "Israel's fake history" or the video, using its coded slurs and me showing an example from history about what this kind of thing means? Your example above explicitly connects the feeling of privelege of the Israeli's to the feeling of privelege of whites in America. So, if anything, you proved my point for me.Saying that the Palestinians were displaced and are oppressed and recognizing the forces that made that happen is a common discussion among historians. It's fact and no one disputes that.

But Icke's goal is quite different, as was the goal of the OP. Why not float out a little video about how they aren'tr even really Jews? Why not say they are hiding this fake history that, if we knew it, would show how horrible they are? He has regularly connected Judaism to his world control conspiracy...which is old school Anti-Semitism.

Hi Al

The goal of the original post was unknown to me. Its fascinating to watch the patterns it makes. Like a stone tossed into a pond. Its interesting to learn from peoples projections, feelings and learning.

Wait, an insight, the goal of the original post was to learn something....

toss.....

http://youtu.be/C0CulhsQkTA

plop...

Rich

[Dajenarit]

No in the video I posted, one of the first things Miko Peled states is that Israeli history has been largely mythologized or at least misunderstood (sort of like American history) to hide some its less than shining moments. Lee Atwater actually reminds me of the right wing fundamentalists running the Knesset who don't hide their hatred of Palestinians, Arabs and Blacks. They don't even bother with coded language in alot of instances. Not even getting into the blatantly discriminatory laws specifically written for Arabs, Muslims, Africans and Palestinians. They legislate second class citizenship for these people. That is the definition of an apartheid state, not a liberal democracy. Thats part of the falseness people are talking about. The video I posted actually makes a strong argument for why Icke despite how you feel about him or how he says what he says is actually not too far off-base. ''The General's Son'' video states that even Israeli children from day 1 in school are indoctrinated to believe certain things about Palestinians, Israel and the relationship Palestinians have with Israel today and in the past that don't match with reality.

As Michael has been trying to get into people head,s Icke has a tendency to mix and match good sourced information to legitimate his fantasies or daily downloads.

The discussion about Israels history is necessary and is extremely relevant to everything going on today. Dare I say its the sole reason for the continued bloodshed and hatred. History is prologue and It shouldn't be invalidated because of the messenger.

[Dajenarit]

Would people be offended if I stated that most of what people understand to be American history is false? Time and propaganda has made our history a distorted mess too.

[Alexatron]

Would people be offended if I stated that most of what people understand to be American history is false? Time and propaganda has made our history a distorted mess too.

I'm pretty sure every nations history is rewritten for various reasons. I have a collection of old books written by people living in NZ during the early days of colonising NZ and their accounts of things bear little resemblance to history as taught in schools and portrayed in mass media. These books are very hard to source which makes me wonder whether there has been book burning program going on.

[allen2saint]

Here are some points that I feel are being mistakenly combined:

Some Israeli kids are raised to hate Palestinians. That alone is truth. That can be said of any culture over another. The people I've met who have the most compassion for the Palestinians are Isrealis as well and I am quite sure that some Palestinians are raised to hate Isrealis. So....?
Palestinians are an oppressed native people who were displaced and live in unjust conditions. Anyone can see that.
The history of the establishment of Israel. Anyone who reads a history book can learn that. OK.

But where we start to go off into racism territory is this whole "They aren't even really Jews' business. Come on...Icke has been all about this mythic Jewish world domination bit. Is anyone really going to say his interest is only historical? Look at the guys wikipedia page.

[Michael]

An excerpt from Tru Tv's "Conspiracy Theory" (LOL @ show name) hosted by linear thinking Jesse "The Body" Ventura, who, despite a lengthy career of head injuries and obvious neurological malfunctions, can think clearly enough to ask Icke basic questions to reveal what a complete fraud the lizard lover really is. If you can not see Icke as clearly as Ventura, then maybe for you the reptiles are as real as pro wrestling.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg_3cTH16dQ