the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

So I get a message that some dudes need money to go fly to China and get accepted as disciples into a Tai chi lineage where the grandmaster is long gone and now headed by the daughter. I find myself asking-

1. Don't you need to be a student of someone for a long time to be accepted as a disciple, like years and years of training under the watchful eye of somebody?

2. Wouldn't you want to give discipleship to a person who has been your student for years and years and not someone who flies over from America for a week or 2?

3. They have been doing that style of Taiji starting late last year. Of course they have done other styles yes, but does that make you an expert of this new style you just started?

this is what money can buy nowadays!!

where is the integrity in IMA. anyone?

FWIW

where is the integrity in IMA. anyone?

You can't buy skill or integrity. But, you can buy a degree or a medal. It's not really about ima.

I'm pretty young but I remember a time where a guy trained for a really long time with his teacher, did the kowtow ceremony, and became a disciple. Long gone are those days. I know some guys last year who were made disciples after over 30 years with a teacher.

There are some schools that require you to become a disciple in order to start the training. I think there are different ways of doing things, where discipleship is the prerequisite rather than the final reward at the end of the journey.

That's how it is with my teacher. You'd have to wait maybe 6 months or so to become a disciple. It mainly means no short termers for that. He just has to be convinced you are in it for the long haul. There's plenty of casual students who have been with him for years without doing the discipleship thing but they are the types who just want something fun to do on the weekends.

If you want to go deep, then it's like Jessie said, the bai shi is more of a first step. It's like an oath of fealty or something. It's not just something the teacher gives you. It goes both ways.

What they said...

Still, the situation you describe is ridiculous.

I have been training with my Chen Taiji teacher for 8 years, have studied the complete system, have competed several times under his guidance and have been teaching for years, training people to compete and win prizes on a national and international level in forms and sports fighting but I have not been made disciple. Some other people have "skipped" lineage to become disciples under a grandmaster but I haven't seen that to be a guarantee of being taught well, or being taught at all.

My teacher says he doesn't want to use discipleship as an excuse to charge you money and teaches you everything if you put in the work anyway.
He says later when his son reaches adulthood he'll accept disciples but only people with real skills, so he cannot be embarassed by his disciples.

I'm fine with not being a disciple and I'll be fine with becoming one when he decides so. Either way, he teaches me and I train what he teaches with mutual respect.

If you "buy" discipleship or certifications, people will notice your skill or lack thereof.

EXACTLY !

neijia_boxer wrote:So I get a message that some dudes need money to go fly to China and get accepted as disciples into a Tai chi lineage where the grandmaster is long gone and now headed by the daughter. I find myself asking-

1. Don't you need to be a student of someone for a long time to be accepted as a disciple, like years and years of training under the watchful eye of somebody?

2. Wouldn't you want to give discipleship to a person who has been your student for years and years and not someone who flies over from America for a week or 2?

3. They have been doing that style of Taiji starting late last year. Of course they have done other styles yes, but does that make you an expert of this new style you just started?

this is what money can buy nowadays!!

where is the integrity in IMA. anyone?

FWIW

Only needy people become disciples. Your needy or your not.

Not a big deal. People have been doing mail order black belts and degrees for years.

Also seen the affiliate programs for many martial art brands? Does not take much to recognised as a related school in many styles. Mt, bjj, krav maga, karate etc you name it.

The only thing keeping things in check is that you have to still consider what happens when the wrong guy walks in the room. Money does not directly translate to ability.