Brussels

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Brussels

Postby Steve James on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:40 pm

Everybody knows what happened. Now, what should we do about the TSA? Or, what should we do in general? Or, is there really anything that can be done about people doing such things?
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 16244
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Brussels

Postby Dmitri on Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:04 am

They sort of did what I've been saying for years (since the moment TSA appeared) could be done with relative ease by a suicidal-murderous maniac, i.e. there are numerous other easy-to-access crowded areas other than planes, -- inside airports, etc. IOW, how utterly useless the TSA has been, with its ludicrous emphasis on not letting toothpaste and bottle openers onto planes.

The only hope IMHO lies with CIA, because it is generally best to get to the source of the problem. And maybe a foreign policy of non-intervention. Although the latter is probably not the best idea either, for other reasons (because I think American troops around the world is what's mostly keeping the dollar afloat).
Last edited by Dmitri on Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9375
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: Brussels

Postby Michael on Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:15 am

User avatar
Michael
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11556
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: Guangzhou, China

Re: Brussels

Postby wiesiek on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:19 am

Today I heard radio discussion ,
to sum it up:
like or not we are in the global war, just name is > clash of the cultures < ,
heh, i called it religious war long ago, and started even thread about it. Thread die quickly, but war is warming up.
Only solution is:
- border between Islam and rest of the word, they simply don`t mix well /in gross/ in the "western type society " .We have go thru the difficult process of filtration inside, kick them out to the Africa - and let them cookin` for their own .
In mean time: ready to be kill any day...Without some dose of freedom /tolerance from "their" side - there is no solution.
To put it really straight:
"we" allow "them" to keep their >religion/s/ , as they wish ,
"they" force us to change "styles" as they wish...

`cause Islam is present in every part of the our mixed word - it`s not goin` to happen.
I have here >radical Christians< party, they are like the empty head Islamisms, just don`t has killer commando - "Armed Hand of the God" yet...
So
morons are everywhere, rest of the word has to keep all of them "lo-profile" and control it somehow.
From the another hand, we have Muslims groups livin` in Poland couple hundreds years alredy, and didn`t had terrorist/s/ yet...
BASIC:
split religions and Government.
Let`s them talk about eternity forever, here is the earth, damned,
like to check what is there - faster?
free to go , BUT ALONE!
joyful usefullnes of the effords
User avatar
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 3532
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Re: Brussels

Postby Michael on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:38 am

"The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined" says we're on a global, historical downward trend for violence.

Police can not stop crime in their city or jurisdiction. They can move it around and discourage or encourage various kinds, but it can't be stopped.

Violence can not be stopped, but it or war can be reduced. The state-sponsored terrorism and the past 60 years of bombing the third world and the middle east might be connected to what happened in Brussels. It will stop when we want it to.
User avatar
Michael
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11556
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: Guangzhou, China

Re: Brussels

Postby aamc on Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:55 am

I, like everyone else has their own opinion on this. I have two strands on this.The first is that this is just a continuing trend. There will always be terrorists attacks, whenever disgruntled alienated men, and I do mean men find a reason to hit out at the world. Living in London, this too me is not a new thing.
In the 80s we had the very real threat of the IRA plant truck bombs in the city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Bishopsgate_bombing

I also remember when the admiral duncan bombing, in which a young man decided to plant bombs in at gay venues and out in Brixton:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Admiral_Duncan

So my first take. Is that this is just the current round of radicalised young men. After the muslims, it will be someone else that feels the world can be bent to their wishes via violence.

The second take, is that these tend to be local naturalised citzens. Again young men, I'm guessing that they feel wronged or cut out of the world around them. That radicalised islam, preys on them and bends this pain into hatred. It helps justify their disconnect and provides them with an answer. I don't view it as a clash of cultures or all that reactionary nonsense born out of sense of not knowing the other. But a by-product of isolationism, racism and manipulative people using a persons sense of persecution as a incitement to violence. How to combat it? Ensure that these men aren't allowed to be isolated and that they feel they have a place in the society around them.


To me it seems its just the turn of the next set of radicalised young men. The pattern to me is always the same its a group of isolated men, who feel alienated from society around them. They find some
aamc
Huajing
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:50 am

I don't really believe that these guys blow themselves up for religious reasons. It's political, but it could never be successful at creating a caliphate. Neither the people in NYC, London, Paris or anywhere else are close to capitulating. The whole point of these particular guys is to terrorize, but that only works on some people.

It's not a clash of cultures. It's cannibalism. More Muslims are dying than anyone else, and where most of them die there's really a war. Radicalization is a really ironic phenomenon. It's not young Muslim men coming from overseas; it's the ones who grew up in their --usually segregated-- neighborhoods.

There have been many attacks this month. http://www.citylab.com/crime/2016/03/ap ... th/474855/
And there have been many warnings of more.

Afa solutions, hah, just as the man said, there'll always be terrorists and the fear of them. What we can do about this current crop is not so simple, but it can't be done without the help of the people fighting the people who are trying to terrorize us.

Afa TSA, sure, Dmitri, I thought of you when it happened. And, as you recall, the way Israel deals with it is by having checkpoints way before the terminal. They screen passengers very closely before they get to the airport. But, what about the buses to the airports, or the bus stations for the buses, or the train to get to the bus to the airport, etcetera. Israel must afford to do that, but it doesn't have as many trains, buses and planes as we do.

There are always soft targets everywhere.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 16244
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Brussels

Postby Dmitri on Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:22 am

Yep, can't protect everyone from everything all the time, otherwise we'd probably have already done that :)

The real solution for this (and for just about all other ethnic or religious conflicts out there) is to have their kids grow up in a different environment, with more good food and happiness and less anger and violence, but that's very, very far from an easy, or even remotely fast, process. I think it'll gradually improve though; it already have, over time. Just look at the "value of human life" in, say, Europe and compare it with that of just 200+ years ago... HUGE improvement, clearly. Hopefully a few generations later, with more available food and clean water and other basic needs -- and more and more internet, videogames, etc. -- the biological need for violent behavior will gradually yield to other means of living one's life...
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9375
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: Brussels

Postby chud on Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:12 pm

Dmitri wrote:
The real solution for this (and for just about all other ethnic or religious conflicts out there) is to have their kids grow up in a different environment, with more good food and happiness and less anger and violence, but that's very, very far from an easy, or even remotely fast, process. I think it'll gradually improve though; it already have, over time. Just look at the "value of human life" in, say, Europe and compare it with that of just 200+ years ago... HUGE improvement, clearly. Hopefully a few generations later, with more available food and clean water and other basic needs -- and more and more internet, videogames, etc. -- the biological need for violent behavior will gradually yield to other means of living one's life...


Wow, way off base.

This was yet another incident of radical Islamic terrorism.
User avatar
chud
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3538
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 7:42 am
Location: Alamo City, Lone Star State

Re: Brussels

Postby Dmitri on Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:40 pm

Terrorists are people too -- they learned all that shit somewhere... Nobody is born a terrorist, although of course some would be much more genetically predisposed to certain types of behavior than others.

There are a few rare exceptions (when an adult gets converted and goes nuts), but I bet you anything that even those cases can be traced to those people's upbringing/childhood life.
Last edited by Dmitri on Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9375
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:08 pm

There are a few rare exceptions (when an adult gets converted and goes nuts), but I bet you anything that even those cases can be traced to those people's upbringing/childhood life.


You're right, but people think that any consideration of this terrorism as a political act committed by human beings is too sympathetic. When I lived in France, there were plenty of Muslims, but no Islamic terrorism in Europe. One has to ask where the radicalism came from. If it was just religion, it would have started long ago.

Afa what to call them, does anybody think that us (in the US) calling them something different will change what they do? Will it help the people who are currently the victims? Btw, when I listen to the news from France, I don't hear any concern about how to describe the terrorists. They're just "terrorist attacks."

Aamc mentioned the terrorism in England during the 70s. It could be called Catholic terrorism, but Catholicism wasn't the cause. If one went to the places in Ireland where the bombers (of bars and businesses) came from, and saw the conditions they lived in, one might understand how they could be recruited.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 16244
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Brussels

Postby aamc on Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:17 pm

All the way into the 90s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing

I have a friend now in his 30s who had friends killed in the Omagh bombing. Meet taxi drivers that was near the Bishopsgate bombs. I remember waking up in the morning to see the news report about the IRA very nearly killing the PM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing
aamc
Huajing
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Brussels

Postby yeniseri on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:05 pm

Je suis Bruxelles ???
The facts are that, like the IRA and other groups who know they have been "victimized" (a relative term here), these are done to assuage their own sense of 'revenge" real and imagined.
Violence should never be the solution but when people imagine they have been hoodwinked, they do what they do and it ends up being evil when innocent people are targeted.

So if the GOP hollahs that they want to get rid of TSA but Cruz wants neighbourhoods with military and law enforcement presence, they (GOP) have played into the game of the evildoers.
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3088
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: Brussels

Postby windwalker on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:44 pm

The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) is a bit of a misnomer, says France, as it lends the imprimatur of Islam to a group that the vast majority of Muslims finds despicable. "This is a terrorist group and not a state. I do not recommend using the term Islamic State because it blurs the lines between Islam, Muslims, and Islamists," France's Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said in a statement. "The Arabs call it 'Daesh' and I will be calling them the 'Daesh cutthroats.'"

http://theweek.com/speedreads/446139/fr ... sh-instead

The name Daesh, according to France24, is a "loose acronym" for "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" (al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq al-Sham). The name is commonly used by enemies of ISIS, and it also has many negative undertones, as Daesh sounds similar to the Arabic words Daes ("one who crushes something underfoot") and Dahes ("one who sows discord").


naming something is important in understanding it.



One of the suspected suicide bombers from Tuesday's attacks in Brussels was deported from Turkey last summer, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Wednesday.


Ibrahim el-Bakraoui was suspected of being a foreign fighter and detained, and Erdogan said Turkey warned authorities at the Belgian Embassy about his ties to terrorists. Bakraoui was deported into the custody of the Netherlands at his request, NPR reports. Belgium couldn't find any evidence of Bakraoui having any links to terror groups, and he was released, Erdogan said. Belgian federal
prosecutor Frederic Van Leeuw said that while Bakraoui and his brother Khalid, both had criminal records, they did not have any known terror ties. The brothers both blew themselves up on Tuesday during the attacks that killed at least 31 people, authorities say.


"There is no reason for the bomb, which exploded in Ankara, not to explode in Brussels, where an opportunity to show off in the heart of the city to supporters of the terror organization is presented, or in any city in Europe," he said. "Despite this clear reality, European countries are paying no attention, as if they are dancing in a minefield. You can never know when you are stepping on a mine."


http://theweek.com/speedreads/614587/tu ... de-bombers

they where warned and have been warned but failed to have a comprehensive plan in place that addressed the reality of the situation.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6128
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Brussels

Postby wiesiek on Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:09 am

you know, aamc
1st I would vote for : fuck political correctness, lets name things :how they are really looks like.

I heard interesting talk with long term translator workin` in the Brussels >terrorists< district.
I`m not re-posting it here `cause it was in Polish language,
shortly, biggest part of this emigrants wave :
doesn`t like to mix with western word...

they simply dream about live in their own word,
while takin` as big piece of the cake as they can, without a ordinary job, etc.
the best scenario: don`t respect >different< is their -main course,
In mean time Imam is speaking: we are religion of the peace..., hehe same like Pop. Just note, that Christians killer instinct is little beat lower only - `cause civilization not the religion.
Religions is always the nice cover.

US is little bit different, `cause all nations come there and squeezed Native Americans,
When I was in the NJC didn`t feel like "emigrant", where after 2 months in London very "alien"
Europe has long tradition of small different nations, always in conflicts, now miraculously united .
Even if you look at Turkish community in the Germany - they are there quite long time, and still are, well, different ;) ...
Cdobe or long no heard here Tesshu, - may give us some insight.

I`m not against >multiethnic< society,
however if you come to my house ...

>domestic< or >local< - terrorist seems to be different beast, but they feed e.a.
joyful usefullnes of the effords
User avatar
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 3532
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Next

Return to Been There Done That

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest