Brussels

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:13 am

Well, it's not the same all over Europe. Turks in Germany are not a good example of Muslim extremists at all. The biggest complaint that Germans have against Turks is that one will move into an apartment and then bring over lots of family members. In Germany, the landlord can't just kick people out. Afa working, the Turks were asked by the Germans to come as "gastarbeiters" to help rebuild the country after the war. Afa as whether Turks try to fit in, c'mon, even Jews can find it hard to "fit in" to German (or Polish) society after centuries.

I know France much better, and you're right about unemployment there. But, I don't think it's because Muslims are especially lazy. And, even though Muslims make up 5% of the population but are 60% of the prison population, I don't think they're really more prone to crime because they're Muslims. I know that part of it is just plain anti-Semitism (against Muslims) that existed long before there was a single terrorist.

When Arabs from North Africa started coming to France in large numbers, they couldn't move into the center of Paris because there just wasn't the space. There still isn't because it's illegal to build tall buildings. So, instead, the big housing developments were built on the outskirts of the city. They were and are still ghettos. Unemployment in France, and Europe, is high. So, the children of the people who came first feel despised, suspected and often imprisoned because they're Muslim.

Then some Imam tells them that it's a European/US plot against all Muslims. They say just take a look around the world. Then a guy who probably smokes cigarettes, drinks wine, sleeps around, doesn't pray, but doesn't have a job or much hope, decides to strike against the people he's grown up with.

F-in right, It's totally different in the US. Even though there are long-standing economic disparities, Blacks, Hispanics and Indians are almost never terrorists. That's because in spite of everything they feel they belong here. Europe has a completely different problem, but it isn't simply because Muslims and Christians don't mix.

Oh, I do agree with the "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." That's another issue to discuss, though.
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Re: Brussels

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:19 am

Islamic Terror on Christians
This is a list of targeted acts of terrorism on Christian civilians and church workers by religious Muslims since September 11th, 2001. These attacks have nothing to do with war, combat or insurgency. The victims are innocent Christians who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attac ... tacks.aspx

Unless I missed something most of the countries where they come from have strict laws concerning religious practices.

I think if one looks at population densities, once a certain threshold is reached, they seek to become the dominant force
where ever they'er at. This is most apparent with countries that have long histories defined by language, culture and borders.

At this point in time, for what ever reason the leadership of certain countries
have failed to understand that they have underwritten the demise of their historical
cultures. Whether this is important or not only time will tell.
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Re: Brussels

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:57 am

"Even with the EU in general, there's an infiltration of jihadists that's been happening for two decades. And now they're just starting to work on this. When we have to contact these people or send our guys over to talk to them, we're essentially talking with people who are — I'm just going to put it bluntly — children. These are not pro-active, they don't know what's going on. They're in such denial. It's such a frightening thing to admit their country is being taken over."


overall population, according to figures extrapolated from a recent study by the Pew Research Center. In percentage terms, Belgium has one of the highest Muslim populations in Western Europe.In metropolitan Brussels — where roughly half of Belgium's Muslims currently live — the Muslim population has reached 300,000, or roughly 25%. This makes Brussels one of the most Islamic cities in Europe.

Approximately 100,000 Muslims live in the Brussels district of Molenbeek, which has emerged as the center of Belgian jihadism.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7677/ ... -jihadists
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Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:45 am

Unless I missed something most of the countries where they come from have strict laws concerning religious practices.


You missed a bit. These terrorists were born in Belgium. They were Belgian.
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Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:57 am

This is a list of targeted acts of terrorism on Christian civilians and church workers by religious Muslims since September 11th, 2001. These attacks have nothing to do with war, combat or insurgency. The victims are innocent Christians who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive.


Reminds me of that Christian church in Charleston where the guy went in, prayed, then shot everyone he could. I wonder if that counts as a crimes by Christians against Christians? Oh well, body counts are irrelevant. Anyway, the last sentence above could easily read " The victims are innocent Muslims who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive."

And, fwiw, no "Christian" would use Christianity as a vindication of violence. That's not in the "Christian" Bible. So, hating or suspecting Muslims or Arabs is fine, but don't pretend or claim that it's Christian. It's just ordinary human, nothing special or better.
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Re: Brussels

Postby yeniseri on Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:32 am

Steve James wrote:
Unless I missed something most of the countries where they come from have strict laws concerning religious practices.


You missed a bit. These terrorists were born in Belgium. They were Belgian.


Most Maghrebin (North Africans) have been in France and Belgium for at least 2 generations but the ghettoization along with a medieval religion failing to keep up with modern standards of education and social equity has produced what is seen today. It does not help that employment and other prospects are dim for those who use their limited skills for death and destruction! No doubt there are Muslims with an upward and modern approach to their social milieu but if they speak out they will be seen as usurpers to the national identity and will become targets. Take a look at Iran before the revolution and Iran after and the difference is very stark!
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Re: Brussels

Postby aamc on Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:57 am

wiesiek I don't know what your point was.

Mine was, that this type of violence is nothing new. Maybe to you. But; yesterday, it was the anarchists, then it was the red army faction, then it was Neo-facists, then it was the IRA, then is was radicalised Islamists, tomorrow it will be someone else.

As long as men, feel isolated and the 20th century notion of justified violence to obtain political change. Then we'll always have terror attacks. Jumping up and down and pointing at religion, Meh.
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Re: Brussels

Postby wiesiek on Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:37 pm

ok,
point simple, not - poofing ;) something, but:
Steve - Turks in my post are not example >portrait of the terrorist<,
look carefully - close to 100 years of integration and ...they don`t blend/mix -main Muslims mark - very open society if you`re Muslim, :D .
ammc, this kind of shitty behaviour is nothing new, I agree. To tell` ya more: 80% of the terrorist attacks , or even less /don`t remember exact numbers/ are NOT the Muslims.
They are just more spectacular.
BUT
killing unfaithful and holly war are word of Allah written in the holly book along with some more pearls of wisdom...
Of course, Imams swear that they practise without bad things in their mind, `cause Allah say:
also- all life is sacred.
Hmm, as a unfaithful I do not believe ,I`m afraid, -joint-
....
Local Muslim told me - those verses are there, and Muslims terrorist use it as the poof of their right. In addition their faith is stiff like dry mummy , not to many changes in 1500 years.
Although Christianity is 500 older, showing up some improvement thru the millennia, even some, echem, "flexibility " ,
so,
clash of the cross and halfmoon came to live now.
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joyful usefullnes of the effords
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Re: Brussels

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:34 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JTCMwdrpt4

These movements want to organize societies along religious lines
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Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:13 pm

Turks in my post are not example >portrait of the terrorist<, look carefully - close to 100 years of integration and ...they don`t blend/mix -main Muslims mark - very open society if you`re Muslim,


Well, if Turks don't count, they must not be Muslims, eh? And, the larger point is, what EXACTLY can be done to Muslims without doing it to Turks -or the "innocent" Muslims. They're the ones who are dying every day, being murdered by the people who say that it says so in their holy book --which, btw, also clearly states that killing "innocent" people is sinful.

In terms of killing, the two "cultures" are not that different. The "Lord's Army" in central Africa is just as bad as "Boko Haram" or "IS" and it's "Christian." Barbarism has not gone away or even changed.
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Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:24 pm

For wiesiek, remember this guy? This just happened yesterday.
The Yugoslav war crimes tribunal found Karadzic guilty of orchestrating Serb atrocities throughout Bosnia's 1992-95 war that left 100,000 people dead.

The U.N. court found Karadzic criminally responsible for genocide in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in which 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered. He was also held criminally responsible for murder, attacking civilians and terror for overseeing the deadly 44-month siege of the Bosnian capital, Sarajevo, during the war.
However, the court didn't hold Karadzic responsible in a second genocide charge, for a campaign to drive Bosnian Muslims and Croats out of villages claimed by Serb forces.

Branded the "Butcher of Bosnia," he had faced a total of 11 charges and a maximum life sentence, but was given 40 years imprisonment. Karadzic can appeal the ruling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/world ... rdict.html
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Re: Brussels

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:17 pm

Steve James wrote:
This is a list of targeted acts of terrorism on Christian civilians and church workers by religious Muslims since September 11th, 2001. These attacks have nothing to do with war, combat or insurgency. The victims are innocent Christians who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive.


Reminds me of that Christian church in Charleston where the guy went in, prayed, then shot everyone he could. I wonder if that counts as a crimes by Christians against Christians? Oh well, body counts are irrelevant. Anyway, the last sentence above could easily read " The victims are innocent Muslims who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive."

And, fwiw, no "Christian" would use Christianity as a vindication of violence. That's not in the "Christian" Bible. So, hating or suspecting Muslims or Arabs is fine, but don't pretend or claim that it's Christian. It's just ordinary human, nothing special or better.



Even within the Islamic community there is a category of Muslims who are also said to bear guilt – greater, even, than the average non-believer. These are the hypocrites, or “Munafiqin,” whom Muhammad referred to in the most derogatory terms. A hypocrite is considered to be a Muslim in name only. They are distinguished from true Muslims, according to the 9th Sura, by an unwillingness to wage (v.81 , 86) or fund (v.121) holy war. True believers fight and are harsh to unbelievers (v.123).

The Muslim terrorists who frequently kill "other Muslims" in the name of Allah do so believing that their victims are Munafiqin or kafir (unbelievers). This is a part of Sharia known as takfir, in which a Muslim can be declared an apostate and then executed for their role in hindering the expansion of Islamic authority. (A true Muslim would go to paradise anyway, in which case he or she could hardly be expected to nurse a grudge amidst the orgy of sex and wine).

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages ... error.aspx


A lot of what you post is answered very neatly by the belief system itself.
It would seem there are no innocent Muslims, in the eyes of a true believer its actually written into their belief system.
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Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:36 pm

The Muslim terrorists who frequently kill "other Muslims" in the name of Allah do so believing that their victims are Munafiqin or kafir (unbelievers).


Whether they believe who they murder are true Muslims or not is irrelevant. You consider them Muslims. They consider themselves Muslims. My point was that Muslims make up the majority of the victims of "Islamic terrorists," and the majority of the people who are fighting ISIL or Daesh are also Muslims.
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Re: Brussels

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:32 pm

the majority of the people who are fighting ISIL or Daesh are also Muslims.


which means what?

Even many of those Muslims who claim to be against terrorism still support the “insurgency” in Iraq, for example, and often entertain the allegation that there is a broader “war against Islam.” Although American troops in Iraq were trying to protect innocent life and help the country rebuild, Muslims around the world and in the West believe that it was legitimate for true believers to try and kill them.

Enjoying the sanction of holy war, the Mujahid thus reasoned that it is permissible to attack fellow Iraqis – the ones helping the Americans - even if they are part of a democratically-elected Iraqi government. These non-combatants and combatants alike are believed to be the “Munafiqin” or "Takfir" assisting the enemy “Crusaders.”

Although we use Iraq as an example here, this is the same rationale that is ultimately behind all Islamic terror, from the Philippines to Thailand. Wherever the Muslim religion is a minority, there are always radicals who believe that violence is justified in bringing Islam to dominance - just as Muhammad taught and set by example in Mecca and other places, such as the land of al-Harith.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages ... index.aspx

List of Islamic Terror:
Last 30 Days

This is part of the list of Islamic terror attacks maintained by TheReligionofPeace.com.

During this time period, there were 145 Islamic attacks in 26 countries, in which 1324 people were killed and 2896 injured.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attac ... ?Yr=Last30
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Re: Brussels

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:56 pm

It means exactly what I said. Which words didn't you understand?
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