Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Ah Louis on Wed May 11, 2016 12:02 pm

:-X
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Dmitri on Wed May 11, 2016 2:23 pm

"westerner" meaning "white guy", i.e. one who is not ethnically Japanese

That's how I understood it. Ethnicity means significantly more than citizenship, in these matters. (But I have a suspicion you already knew that, and were basically just being an ass I mean, "helpful"... ::))
Last edited by Dmitri on Wed May 11, 2016 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9293
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Ah Louis on Wed May 11, 2016 3:37 pm

:-X
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Marko on Thu May 12, 2016 1:42 am

Ah Louis wrote:
westerner definition:
west·ern·er
/ˈwestərnər/
noun
a native or inhabitant of the west, especially of western Europe or North America.

You comment doesn't change a thing, the fact is the statement isn't accurate and should be corrected for the benefit of the readers.


A single word usually doesn't have just one or two meanings and often it can have further specific meanings that run contrary to the more general meaning of the same word. Not all definitions can be found in a general, online dictionary. The semantic change can turn a word's meaning over its head, over time – so now we have "villain" meaning a "bad guy" instead of its original meaning of "peasant", or "wicked" in its colloquial modern context meaning "great, brilliant" instead of its original meaning of "evil". Words have a host of meanings both current and past one chooses from when speaking or writing.

Context is what allows us to select the proper meaning of the word from a host of other meanings inherent in it. Westerner also means a person from a western part of any country, state or geographical region. It was also used to denote specifically people who lived in the second part of the XIX century in the American West. By extension it is also used for writers of western fiction during the pulp fiction age (and in the same vein, it was used for anyone who made westerns in the movie industry - actors, producers, writers, directors etc.).

The word also has a different meaning within the context of sociology where East-West dichotomy is cultural instead of geographical. Within it, westerner means a person from a western culture, not simply an inhabitant of the western hemisphere. "Easterners", in this context, become "Westerners" when they fully adopt Western culture. Of course, it works the other way around as well, so "Westerners" can become "Easterners". In practice, this is only true for later generations, not direct immigrants, as they never really fully adopt their new culture as they have spent their formative years in a different culture.

All these definitions of the word are correct. The accuracy comes from context, and while different people may interpret context differently (for a host of reasons), most people grasp what was meant, simply due to the fact that some pairings of meaning and context appear together more often than others.

As in many other things, deciding on the contextual meaning of the word, specificity overrides general definitions.

Marko
Last edited by Marko on Thu May 12, 2016 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Marko
Anjing
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:26 pm

when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important things

Postby Bodywork on Thu May 12, 2016 2:49 am

Ah Louis wrote:
Dmitri wrote:"westerner" meaning "white guy", i.e. one who is not ethnically Japanese

That's how I understood it. Ethnicity means significantly more than citizenship, in these matters. (But I have a suspicion you already knew that, and were basically just being an ass I mean, "helpful"... ::))


I feel sorry for you for your expressed ignorance, and racially ugly statement. Btw, the seminar is happening in the Western world.

westerner definition:
west·ern·er
/ˈwestərnər/
noun
a native or inhabitant of the west, especially of western Europe or North America.

You comment doesn't change a thing, the fact is the statement isn't accurate and should be corrected for the benefit of the readers.

Jap·a·nese
Adjective
1.of or relating to Japan or its language, culture, or people.
Noun
1.a native or inhabitant of Japan, or a person of Japanese descent.

7th dan, kyoju dairi?
1. Do you know another non Japanese with this rank and title?
2. The Kodokai and Kiyama, have never objected to him using his rank and title and this description on Kodokai websites and advertisements for other seminars. Roy is your senior and the East coast director of the Kodokai. Any questions and/or comments should be directed to him.
I know I will be discussing you, and your public support of several well known and discredited teachers... who have tried to fraudulently use Roy, the Kodokai and Daito ryu, as well as use Don Angier, as well as the Yoshida family, and others who have fraudulently used Otake, and the Katori Shinto ryu ...
While you make a stink over your own senior in the Kodokai.

Roy and I train together every week. Maybe we will both just give you a conference call from my living room when I get back from England next week.
You have been after me... And using your position in the kodokai, since your arrival here. Perhaps you can better explain your views on why you ended up supporting and even defending, teachers being discussed here who tried to rip off the Kodokia over those supporting it.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Ah Louis on Thu May 12, 2016 7:42 am

:-X
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Bodywork on Thu May 12, 2016 9:11 am

Ah Louis wrote:The information you provide is incorrect and it doesn't explain why there is misrepresentation in the wording of the seminar announcement. We all know credibility in the martial arts is gold, and many a person misrepresents themselves in their rank and status. The military guys have a saying about this type of act of misrepresentation as stolen valor. In the business world it is called fraud. In the martial arts it is called good business, as usual. Who goes to a martial arts seminar and pays hundreds of dollars for someone without rank without credibility to teach them? No one. And for those who do have rank, no one pays to go to a white belt's class, because rank indicates experience, knowledge and skill. The higher the rank it is expected there is to be more experience, knowledge and skill Martial arts. And in the martial arts world there is business competition and the public affords credibility with those having a higher rank. Anyone in the martial arts world knows the wide spread epidemic fraud of inflated and misrepresented rank and skill. As you know, your partner is already dealing with scrambling to correct existing misrepresentation of his rank and title not given to him in association to this seminar. Why exacerbate the issue further with the misrepresentation here. Or is there no concern to correct the error in the announcement because martial arts is already a buyer beware market.

In our argument you state the organization doesn't care about misrepresentation. Can you produce any official statements or policies supporting your claims they don't care about misrepresentation of their members? You speak with authority, I was wondering if you could tell us what leadership role having in the kodokai organization, what is your connection?

Personally, I would correct any misinformation on anything thing public or private. I would be vigilant and wouldn't let erroneous mistakes slide, I would insure only the facts be put out if I was charging money. Maybe some people are different and they wouldn't correct mistakes. I know I would feel defrauded if I found out the truth after paying good money for something I was told to be true and it wasn't. Sadly, the martial arts Caveat Emptor (buyer beware). :)


http://kiyamakan.com/Instructors.htm
Roy Goldberg Sensei

Goldberg (Shingen) Sensei is the East Coast Representative of the North American Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Kodokai. Sensei is the highest-ranking student of Hayawo Kiyama Shihan - the President and Chief Instructor of the same organization.
Sensei is honored to have trained at the hombu dojo in Kitami, Japan for the past 30 years. He has trained with the leading Daito-ryu shihans in Japan including Yusuke Inoue Menkyo Kaiden, headmaster of the Kodokai. Over the course of his shugyo, he has been awarded the Hiden Mokuroku (The Secret Essence - 1st scroll of Daito-ryu techniques), as well as the Hiden Okugi Mokuroku (The Secret Essence of Mysteries - 2nd scroll). He has also received the rarely issued Kyoju Dairi (representative instructor) teaching license. In 2015 Sensei was awarded rank of 7th dan by the Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Kodokai Hombu Dojo (Kitami, Japan).

Goldberg Sensei aspires to transmit the techniques of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu - the beautiful, secret art and national treasure of Japan. His goal is to pass down Daito-ryu to serious students, as presented to him by the hombu dojo and Kiyama Shihan. Sensei believes that in the martial arts, one teaches only to continue his own unfinished study.
Last edited by Bodywork on Thu May 12, 2016 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Bodywork on Thu May 12, 2016 10:23 am

After he stopped laughing when I told him it was you....Roy just said "If anyone has questions call Kiyama Shihan. Or contact him."
He also wanted to know what you're doing as no one has seen you practicing in quite a while.
Well, he said other things, but I'm not interested in discussing them here.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Ah Louis on Thu May 12, 2016 10:41 am

:-X
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Bodywork on Thu May 12, 2016 10:53 am

Hey Mr. Fluid logic....
You have nothing to say, and no argument of substance.
You're a nobody in the Kodokai and you are calling into question truly legitimate people who are your seniors.
You owe him an apology.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Ah Louis on Thu May 12, 2016 11:04 am

:-X
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Bodywork on Thu May 12, 2016 11:14 am

Ah Louis wrote:
Bodywork wrote:Hey Mr. Fluid logic....
You have nothing to say, and no argument of substance.
You're a nobody in the Kodokai and you are calling into question truly legitimate people who are your seniors.
You owe him an apology.


I don't know what in the world you are talking about and honestly I never do (that is whole different topic), or why you keep dragging in your partner and his organization into this mole hill you turned into a mountain. The concern is about seeing an error and correcting the error you posted. Doesn't it work into Mr. Goldberg's favor to correct it and have accurate information about him posted? Or you don't think so, obviously. If you did you would have corrected the misinformation and thanked me for catching the error, and forgone all the drama.

What Drama?
There is no drama.
Anyone can contact Roy Directly or Kiyama Sensei and ask him what he thinks of his most senior student.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Ah Louis on Thu May 12, 2016 11:31 am

:-X
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Marko on Thu May 12, 2016 11:54 am

John, what are you saying here, exactly? Is your only beef about this the "westerner" issue? From your post about Kiyamakan Dojo it seems you question the very ranking of Roy Goldberg within your school.

Since you have stated doubts in the veracity of information on the Kiyamakan Dojo due to the fact the page belongs to Goldberg sensei's student, do you believe the bio isn't real and that Roy Goldberg isn't the highest ranking student of Kiyama sensei and is not the only non Japanese holder of Kyoju Dairi in the Kodokai? The implications would be huge, IMO.
Marko
Anjing
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

Postby Ah Louis on Thu May 12, 2016 12:02 pm

:-X
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:35 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Next

Return to Been There Done That

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest