Re: Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg in Florida Nov 11-13

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Steve James on Mon May 16, 2016 4:59 am

Well, to a Japanese person, a Chinese person is a foreigner. It has nothing to do with easterners or westerners.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 15920
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Bodywork on Mon May 16, 2016 6:00 am

Hi Steve.
Well sure, I agree. But since we were talking about westerners, I discussed views in their teaching westerners. Sagawa specifically meant westerners.
The aikikai was referring to easterners and westerners, but since it is mostly westerners who came there... there ya go.
We can discuss the well known Chinese/Japanese love fest, ;) but I don't want to wade into that well known morass. I'm not saying it's everyone either. I was discussing well known as well as personal experiences in the JMA.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Steve James on Mon May 16, 2016 6:42 am

Hey Dan, sorry. I was only addressing the idea of what a "westerner" was, not the specific "Japanese teaching westerners" context. In that context, there's no doubt you're right that the Japanese traditionally didn't want to teach westerners (specifically Europeans, let's say), and historically didn't even want to have contact with them.

But, I thought that the title of this thread seemed to indicate it would become part of an ongoing argument. So, I just cherry-picked the part of it that had to do with the way people perceived (or were allowed to perceive) their identities.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 15920
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Bodywork on Mon May 16, 2016 6:56 am

Steve James wrote:Hey Dan, sorry. I was only addressing the idea of what a "westerner" was, not the specific "Japanese teaching westerners" context. In that context, there's no doubt you're right that the Japanese traditionally didn't want to teach westerners (specifically Europeans, let's say), and historically didn't even want to have contact with them.

But, I thought that the title of this thread seemed to indicate it would become part of an ongoing argument. So, I just cherry-picked the part of it that had to do with the way people perceived (or were allowed to perceive) their identities.

Sure, sure. No worries.
The thread:
Your sharp enough to know who and what to ignore. As for the broader east/ west teaching discussion: the teaching situation -as you know and a agree- is sad, but there is nothing that can be done. In Daito ryu, they openly state in interview after interview, spanning a hundred years; "Only teach one or two the real art."
Can you imagine?
Now imagine how many think THEY are the ones?
I've enough experience -now meeting some great ICMA practitioners- to know similar things happen there as well.
And so it goes......it is their cultural heritage and their right, to do with it what they will. We get what we can. People are people, and bonds form regardless of age, culture, race, or religion. In its own way, and done right, Budo should help heal this tired and sad world.
Last edited by Bodywork on Mon May 16, 2016 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Steve James on Mon May 16, 2016 7:21 am

With regard to choosing students, I agree that teachers have that ultimate right (and responsibility). I don't believe that it's unique to any race/ethnicity/culture. I think it's typical when it comes to anything that has real value. I think the ability to perceive that value might indeed be cultural, and that a teacher might not want to just give away something of cultural value, the legacy of a people. I also think that nothing prevents any human being from perceiving that value, perhaps even more than someone from that culture.

Afa as westerners, I distrust the whole idea of commercialization, and the idea that when one pays a fee, the instructor has to tell everything he or she knows. An instructor may choose to do so, but it ain't because of the money. And, an instructor can at best provide two legs of a three-legged stool. Construction of that third leg is up to the student anyway. So, I can see why teachers of disciplines from many cultures are reluctant to teach westerners.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 15920
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Dmitri on Mon May 16, 2016 8:19 am

Steve James wrote:an instructor can at best provide two legs of a three-legged stool. Construction of that third leg is up to the student anyway.

An alternative (to making that third leg) would be to learn to balance on the two legs that you have really well. That's an art in and of itself... :)
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9315
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Bodywork on Mon May 16, 2016 8:23 am

Steve James wrote: I also think that nothing prevents any human being from perceiving that value, perhaps even more than someone from that culture.

I think this is truly profound and speaks to what really should unite us, rather than divide
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: when is a Japanese person a westerner and other important th

Postby Bodywork on Mon May 16, 2016 8:25 am

Dmitri wrote:
Steve James wrote:an instructor can at best provide two legs of a three-legged stool. Construction of that third leg is up to the student anyway.

An alternative (to making that third leg) would be to learn to balance on the two legs that you have really well. That's an art in and of itself... :)

Most don't know that is an art, and a core value to all budo...
They walk right past it. ;) ;)
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Previous

Return to Been There Done That

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest