a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

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a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby everything on Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:00 pm

every once in a while someone will say how taijiquan or other ima is better than this or that, etc., etc. and then someone will say obviously it's proven in mma. But semi-seriously. suppose in history, the Chens thought they had a better style, training method, etc. They thought that conclusion in proving things out to themselves and some limited set of other people in whatever format they had, sporting, whatever. That isn't really unusual. Many people thought that about various styles. For example, judo was proven at the metropolitan police tournament. A method of training with fewer techniques was better than styles with endless non-resistant practice of endless techniques. Different military forces have had different preferred styles or mixes (xingyiquan, judo, jiu jitsu, sambo, krav maga, whatever) such that they think their mix must be "better" "combatives". The UFC was created by the Gracies to show that BJJ was superior and they proved it for a long time until the (re) emergence of ground and pound, wrestling, sambo, judo, etc. So it's possible from a historical view to say that tjq, judo, bjj, sambo, whatever, was for some time "better" in its day and in some specific context without getting into stupid internet arguments that one of these styles is eternally above all, lol. In recent history we could say bjj was definitely "better" in some context around 1992 for a few years. The Gracies had that brief period. The Chens maybe think they had some similar brief period in a specific location with some specific tests. That has little to do with whatever conclusions we draw about these arts today in some other broader context. Yet people argue as if there is some single "truth" we can get to on an internet board. ::)
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby wiesiek on Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:28 am

as far as I know,
every single truth coming in three variations:
the truth
also the truth
and...
shit no truth
so
its hard to get one final conclusion -bolt-
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby front on Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:55 am

everything wrote:For example, judo was proven at the metropolitan police tournament.


Some years ago I read few materials that dug deeper into that story and in reality it probably never happened. So this story is unreliable. Judo never has "proven" itself against anything. It was pushed to the public by the officials of the day.
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby everything on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:22 pm

Not sure. Of course there has also been Maeda, Fedor, Rousey, etc. If we consider Bjj to be heavily judo-based, with much cross-training between the two, judo is still one of the top arts.

In any case the main point is various advocates of various styles have been able to make an argument about their style in a very temporary way. TJQ perhaps fit this category at one time and place. I don't think we'llever know.
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby chud on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:53 pm

front wrote: Judo never has "proven" itself against anything.


Seriously?!?
What about Karo Parisyan? Ronda Rousey?
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby front on Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:00 am

chud wrote:What about Karo Parisyan? Ronda Rousey?


Every high level athlete is nothing but amazing. What has this to do with the claim that judo is better than classical jujutsu?
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby wiesiek on Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:01 am

any given style is as good as the practitioner , ONLY
.
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby Tom on Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:08 pm

everything wrote:Yet people argue as if there is some single "truth" we can get to on an internet board. ::)


This may have been the only statement in that whole long paragraph we might get consensus on. 8-)
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.

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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:38 pm

Everybody wants the best system with the magic bullet method they won't have to work for.
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby everything on Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:14 pm

Yes sign me up.
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Re: a stupid hypothesis on a stupid BTDT topic

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:17 am

everything wrote:Yes sign me up.


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