All down hill from here: BJJ in China

[johnwang]

couldn't even sweep a leg.

This just reminds a true story that happened in Taiwan almost half century ago.

Many years ago there were a famous IMA master and a famous EMA master in Taiwan (I don't want to mention their names here). Every year they met and the IMA master stood in his solid horse stand to let the EMA master to sweep him. The EMA master always swept his opponent’s ankle from behind while his foot was pointing to the same direction as his opponent’s foot was pointing to. The IMA master was always on the ground. The IMA master then spent another year in his Zhan Zhung but next year the result was still the same. After many years, the IMA master finally figured out that it was not that his rooting was not strong enough but the angle of that sweep could not be countered by any skill that exists on this planet (leg escape was the only solution there).

[klonk]

Yes. It takes two to tango. Knowlege of your own body is good, and that is what IMA looks to perfect, but by itself, it is sort of like (sorry, I don't know the Chinese term for being by yourself and wanting a girlfriend.)

[CaliG]

I have a gongfu brother who taught yoga in China.

Maybe someone here will be lucky enough to teach BJJ in China.

When I was there they had BJJ clubs in Beijing and Shanghai but most of the students were foreigners. I'm curious as to whether the mainlanders themselves are training in BJJ.

It seems like it would be a pretty cool gig. Teach BJJ and learn IMA.

BOOYAHH!

[WVMark]

Much better put than I! I agree 100% Dave.
And that is my point Interloper (for christs sake would you guys use real names). Everyone can talk a game, and have great theory to rest on, but never testing the skill leads those of us to wonder. Not saying they do not have skill, just that it is hard to "prove" you can swim faster than Michael Phelps without ever jumping into the pool. Regardless of how good my posture is! This is why the CMA/IMA suffer IMO. Too many talkers, not any walkers.
Jake

Jake,
Being skeptical in an overall sense is fine. I think a lot of people are naturally skeptical of the IMAs because the majority out there who say they have IMA skills, well, really don't. But if you're going to be skeptical about the people posting, er, I'd suggest looking into their background, or asking around about them as part of being skeptical. You might be surprised to find that people have done the "jumping in the pool" -- just not in your neck of the woods.

While I don't consider myself to have IMA skills, it is something I'm working on. And I test it when I get the chance. Every now and then I record some vids and post them on YouTube. Sort of like when you were a kid and standing against the wall to mark how tall you've grown. Progress indicators. Do I really need them? Nah, but they're nice to have to look back and remember -- especially since my memory isn't great.

http://www.youtube.com/user/wvmark

[shenme]

There is also a Muay Thai school in Beijing and a Kendo school too.

[Bodywork]

Jake
You're starting to sound detached from the reality of the conversation. I think you're talking to a bunch of people from your past and not to me. Just this quote of "shutting fighters down with your internal power" while sarcastic missed the entire body of what I wrote to you about rolling and testing and that if you don’t fight, you don’t know how to fight.. In short, we're not having a conversation; you're ranting at the ghosts of some internal lightweight wannebe's and not really talking with me.
Why do I say that? I don't recognize myself in any of your comments. we have been playing with wrestlers including two collegiate champs, Judoka, BJJ, boxers and MMA guys. And we have been doing so for a very long time. What don't you get? I said repeatedly that rolling and testing is king and is an absolute that is inescapable. To which you keep telling me I need to roll and test. So you're not hearing me. You're having a discussion with someone else you're frustrated with.
I'll try one more time. As far as I am concerned if anyone in the TMA doesn't fight or test against full resistance, they don't know how to fight. Period.

FWIW, I don't do Chinese arts, and contrary to John Wangs continued put downs of IMA and what people here do with his continued examples of fighters engaging TMA people who don't know how to fight (there's a no brainer not worth the time it took to write it) I for one am not going to stand there any day soon while John tries to sweep my leg. Due to the detached nature of the discussion I would have to guess that you guys have only played with inept and inexperienced men from the IMA and therefore are categorizing the entire spectrum by your limited experience. I can relate. However, I think you guys are out of touch with the fact that there are men who actually can fight and have and do train internals. I also think it's obvious you don't have a clue what that means.

Maybe we agree on more than you can currently "hear" (I'm not being derogatory just responding to the obvious dissonance) No TMA guy is going to successfully compete in MMA using TMA. Can they successfully use TMA internal training? TMA principles? Sure. But only if they incorporate them into striking and jujutsu and spend a few years with head hunters who know how to roll. That said. There are two ways to develop power. Internal and externally. Both with the goal of power delivery. Next time I knock someone into la la land or tap them out, or throw them, I'll ask them if they gave a shit what method of power delivered it.
Oh well. I see by your tag line Merry Xmas is out. So Happy holidays.

(Edited for content and spelling)

[JAB]

I am not out of touch, just not going to "take your word for it." I never said you HAVE to go into the UFC to prove anything. But if you want me to believe many of the claims you boast then I need SOME sort of objective proof. Post a video of you doing all these things is all. I am sorry if I came across wrong, I am not trying to hurt you or take anything away from anyone here. Apologies if I jumped the gun, but I get tired of hearing how good IMA are compared to __________________, and then listening to the excuses as to why it fails, or how they succeed but with no video or anything to back up such claims. I also do not want to make it sound like I am doing something no one else does. Certainly not the case (I may be an asshole, but not a delusional one )
So my apologies if I grouped, or made too general of statements. I look forward to seeing some of these great techniques and abilities from someone out there demonstrating in a non-cooperative enviornment, against skilled fighters.


As to "looking into backgrounds" before opening my mouth...... how can I look into anything when at the base level people do not even use their real names here??? Give me a break

Cheers
Jake

[Bodywork]

Well back at ya-I'm not trying to be rude either, Jake
It's just more dissonance in our discsussion is all. I think you're still missing the point in that you continue to peg me as some stylist. As if I "do" this or that TMA style.
Maybe its my fault. I'll go back and re-read. To be clear, I don't give a rip about a single style and never did. I learned and then taught that mistake to many a TMA person as far back as high school. We incorporate jujutsu, judo, MT, wrestling and over the last five years or so some BJJ into what we do. Using...internal power. So, on any other day I am arguing with you. The argument as to whether TMA will ever be successful against MMA is a no brainer to me. And that inludes BJJ.
MMA wins. period.
The secondary discussion is power delivery and conditioning to win.
You keep equating the internal part of the discussion to some traditional stuck in the mud single art. I don't. I equate it to cardio, or lifting IE. power delivery.
Dan
(Edited for content and spelling)

[WVMark]

As to "looking into backgrounds" before opening my mouth...... how can I look into anything when at the base level people do not even use their real names here??? Give me a break

Cheers
Jake

If you read through people's prior posts and the conversations surrounding those posts, you can find out quite a bit. Things like background, name, other people that have trained with them, etc, etc. Send PMs to those that seem to know the person. Just takes a little research and in the end, it could save you from the foot-mouth disease.

[Upyu]

Awww
cmon dude, but its so much fun when it happens

[JAB]

WV- You assume I have that much time to care. Foot in mouth, no.

Dan -
I think we are both misunderstanding each other as that is not how I took your posts. Again I apologize like in my previous post if I grouped you in with anyone.
I grow tired of the internet. Should never have offered my opinion.
Jake

[strawdog]

I grow tired of the internet. Should never have offered my opinion.

Smartest thing you could do.

[Bodywork]

Jake
Well I think it was a respectful debate. I hate / love the internet as well. On the whole I think more positive has come of it (people meeting and information sharing) than bad. the real beauty has been the get togethers behind the scenes.
Happy holidays
Dan

[WVMark]

Awww
cmon dude, but its so much fun when it happens

Hey! Haven't seen you post in awhile. Good to see that you're still around. Let me know if you ever hit the East Coast area again.

[JAB]

D
No worries bro. I meant no harm.

M-
Sad but true.
J