Shooter, Graham, JAB, strawdog and others discuss things

[cloudz]

Nick, we sure are on the same page by the sounds of it. sorry for any crossed lines there.

happy training.

look forward to meet you some time ( hoping to get to the seminars this year)

[Darthwing Teorist]

About Tai Chi and grappling: first time I wrestled with Jeice I had quite a hard time. He vowed to check out grappling and since then he won every single encounter we had. He said that he took some wrestling and BJJ classes. I asked him something like: "Well, you say that you took classes after we met. But you fought pretty well the first time too. What did you use?" He said: "Tai Chi". I was quite impressed. Samtao's grappling comes from Tai Chi too and he's quite good.

That's my experience with a few guys.

[baguaboy]

Nick, we sure are on the same page by the sounds of it. sorry for any crossed lines there.

Anyway I think it was my 'pure' bit that got lost on Bruce's argument... just train these few things (arbitrary concepts) and you'll be fine in MMA! My bucket of salt!

[RobP2]

btw If I ever get even vaguely good enough to teach something I will call it Ctulhu Combat Arts. I know I have no purity in my fighting.

yusuf

That's no good, it only works when the stars are right.....

[yusuf]

btw If I ever get even vaguely good enough to teach something I will call it Ctulhu Combat Arts. I know I have no purity in my fighting.

yusuf

That's no good, it only works when the stars are right.....

in the downtimes i just unleash the dark fist of Sifu Z, bitches

[BruceP]

baguaboy wrote:

While Bruce may see himself as the avant garde, his prerogative is undermining the whole argument of whats missing from MMA! He DOES - DID cross train and may read more into his IMA than there may be there! Sure its great to innovate - bet lets not try and pretend IMA is all you need - it sounds like a fallacy to me! It sounds like bold marketing to me!

First off, I don't consider my research to be all that 'avant guard', and I'm not trying to promote or sell anything aside from the IDEA that I've been ceaselessly droning on about for years.

At one time I actually cared about tjq and I wanted to get others thinking outside the traditional box. I used to debate/discuss the same issues at mma.tv (when it was still the underground), with Tony Blauer's people and Scott Sonnon, in claiming that the information already exists in tjq which allows it to be all-encompassing as a healthful method of training real-world combatives. I have the deepest respect for both gentlemen as they are true innovators of personal combat, btw, and aside from my own poor choice of words at times, the discussions were always amicable. My crazy talk was just as unpopular there as it is here. The same accusations and assumptions have been made a million times about my covert crosstraining, blah blah blah.

I came to tjq with a modest background in boxing (started when I was 9) and wrestling. I learned to wrestle from a serious student of the Stu Hart and Archie Gouldie methods heh heh. So I already had a fairly well-rounded understanding of things. People automaticaly jump on that and say, "AHA!", And run with whatever assumptions they cook can cook up. My tjq instructor had a very similar background when he came to tjq, so...

The truth is, I went to train with those groups with one or two ideas in mind. I remember the first time I rolled with some local wrestlers, I wanted to explore the information contained in repulse and roll-back. I got their blood boiling by telling them that a wrestler can't take a tai chi guy down. I wanted to be sure they were bringing some real hostility. It was a disaster because I refused to let myself resort to my trained habits. What I found out was that you cannot train to win if you want to learn tjq. You really do have to invest in loss. I could have easily held my own if I'd wanted to, but that wasn't why I was there. My objectives were clearly stated each time I went and got tooled. The same standard applied to my research in the competitive arenas I engaged. I stated my objectives to my training partners, and win or lose, I stayed on task. They got to see how the principles and methods work, why they fail, and why they're sound.

What I found out after more than a decade was precisely the opposite of this lazy thinking, "bet lets not try and pretend IMA is all you need" (sic).

[nianfong]

No one trolled anyone. Shooter was acting arrogant and I called him on it.

I guess I am the one that has changed, not the Rum Soaked Fist.

Cheers
Jake

he was arrogant, yes. I'm arrogant too. as are you. we don't tell you that you suck your own dick do we? that crosses the line. respect is a traffic roundabout.

[baguaboy]

The truth is, I went to train with those groups with one or two ideas in mind. I remember the first time I rolled with some local wrestlers, I wanted to explore the information contained in repulse and roll-back. I got their blood boiling by telling them that a wrestler can't take a tai chi guy down. I wanted to be sure they were bringing some real hostility. It was a disaster because I refused to let myself resort to my trained habits. What I found out was that you cannot train to win if you want to learn tjq. You really do have to invest in loss. I could have easily held my own if I'd wanted to, but that wasn't why I was there. My objectives were clearly stated each time I went and got tooled. The same standard applied to my research in the competitive arenas I engaged. I stated my objectives to my training partners, and win or lose, I stayed on task. They got to see how the principles and methods work, why they fail, and why they're sound.

Sounds like a better post now... less dogamatic.

[BruceP]

Good find, Tom. The first time I saw Marco Ruas fight in UFC I immediately thought of Archie in his prime. If you made fun of his boots he'd take one of em off and give you some of what Dan Crawford got back in '73.

[baguaboy]

The first 1:34 is like an RSF discussion on what MMA is missing.

[strawdog]

An ommission of any part of the truth is a lie, but apparently the truth does eventually come out.

[BruceP]

Sounds like a better post now... less dogamatic

Dunno what you mean by dogmatic. If I come off as such (or 'arrogant' even) it's because I've been saying these things for so long that it gets old if I don't keep it fresh

I've also noticed that as soon as it starts to make sense, people pretend not to notice. But then I start to see my 'speak' repeated by others, so I know it's having an impact on at least a few - if only from an intellectual standpoint. But at least the ideas are taking on a life of their own.

I've stated many, many times that it isn't about me or my status. The ideas are already there for tjq to be taken into any competitive format. All I did was figure out a way to train those ideas so that my training partners could explore them under some real pressure. If that doesn't sit well with some folks, it's not my problem.

At least I'm willing to acknowledge someone when I stand corrected

[BruceP]

The first 1:34 is like an RSF discussion on what MMA is missing

OMG! I had to watch that a couple of times before I got it. I'm still LOL.

Too funny

[BruceP]

Teo wrote:

...He said: "Tai Chi". I was quite impressed. Samtao's grappling comes from Tai Chi too and he's quite good

The devil you say! That's just crazy talk!

Who are they? Who are their teachers and what of their lineages?!?

[Darthwing Teorist]

They're on this board. I did not see Samtao around here lately, but Jeice did improve his grappling by taking BJJ though.