Bagauboy/ Nick
Stop digging a hole for yourself mate.. I train with Neil Rossiak on and off - at least one of the guys I think you were talking about from Docherties "top" guys you've trained with, and do some other cross training myself and train on my own. I wouldn't consider myself pure anything, though I'd consider tai chi and straight up boxing my main things so to speak - that whole idea of purity is hogwash bullshit anyway in my opinion. Stop generalizing and lumping people together is what i would say.
Neil has moved on from what Docherty teaches sure. He told me he trained with the guys from shootfighters gym for example back in the day - but back then the scene (MMA) was starting out and they would basically get together and spar - so sure there's no joke to saying he was in part testing his tai chi as well as doing some cross training into the bargain. You may be aware that back then Neil competed succesfully in Vale Tudo. The ethos and name of his club is renaissance and I agree wholeheartedly with it. I think tai chi has all you need for san shou/ sanda. Kicking is a little limited, and i know a guy from Oxford Wudang that added the side kick to his game. He competed in 23 full contact san shou bouts in the UK and only lost once. No cross training in other styles was needed.
This isn't to say you can't improve what you got with stuff from other arts - far from it. But there is a point when "style" just gets in the way. Cali G is right - we all really have to take care of our own style and what works for us.
MMA is somewhat different in my opinion. You need a bit more - at least I'd want a bit more. You could still base a game around the strategies of sprawl and brawl or ground and pound if you wanted. Though i happen to think sub grappling is pretty darn awesome..
There seems to be such a thorn in the side of so many IMA people on this board who fundamentally dislike MMA and say they are traditional and keep the faith that they have all the tools they need... but cross train and do 'secret' training to keep an edge! I think its dishonest to say your pure Tai Chi syllabus is 'pure' when you research other disciplines that have lineages that deserve respect! - Quid pro Quo!
I find it like 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' - staying purist and slowing their own development down in the process!
Got any example to hand or in mind regard the second part of the bolded texted, the bit that starts "I think its dishonest...."
Pure is a silly, corrupt concept - in the
Big Picture of martial arts. If there's those that want that, and to stay in their pure little box - great, I say leave them to it..In itself not the worst thing in the world. But I don't hear about their secret training either.. Unlike your good self it would seem.
I think you've got it wrong for the most part, whilst i think there are different types in CMA/CIMA the guys that do cross train for
the most part are open about it and accepting of it. A lot also I think would say they are 'bringing back' the real traditional type training and using it to in part adapt what they do.. There are clips up of training from Neils classes on you tube as well as footage of one of his guys fighting san shou, you can compare it to the kind of training that went down in HK in Cheng Ting Hung younger days. Not that different at all really..
I put forward it is / was traditional to cross train back in the day in China, mix things, borrow things. And for many it was traditional to test yourself with other groups/people in some form or other. We should be updating training methods, where we see fit. Culture may well be different though. Some things change (usually surface stuff), at the same time a lot stays the same - the meat and potatoes. reading some Yiquan interviews these issues have been around for quite some time
In other words,
Same shit, different day.
. he was wrong to edit your post like he did.
