Tricks To Be Aware Of In Push Hands Challenges

[Nick C]

Article by Dr. Stephen Yan

From my numerous experiences in Push Hands Challenges, I have distilled the following tricks to be aware of;

1) “saying use little force by mouth, but use big force by hands”,
2) “let opponent stand by wall with leg very close to a couch, or a bed, or a chair etc, so the opponent worry about his back and can’t concentrate his front.
3) Rugby tackle charge to object behind (often used in conjunction with number 2)

The following article is the first part describing my experiences with PH and these particular tricks.

As a means of my background, ever since Grand Master Ma Yue Ling and his wife Wu Ying Hua left NZ (after staying with me and my now ex-wife Shi Mei Lin for over 6 months in 1990), I have met different people from different Tai Chi styles and other martial arts like Akido, Judo, Chinese ShuaJiao (wrestling), Wing Chun, Da Chen Quan etc, for push-hands challenges.

Among those people, there were Xiao Qing Lin肖庆林 (陈发科Chen Fa Kou’s disciple), Chen Xiao Wang陈小旺 (Chen Fa Kon’s grandson, Chen style), Ma Hong (Chen style), Liu Jun Long (who has won 3rd place in China national Chen style competition), Fu Sheng Yuan付声远 (Yang style), Xue Na Yin薛乃印 (Wu-Hao style), He Shao Ping (Zhao Bao He style), Wang Guen Nian (Zhao Bao Zheng style), Hou Jian Guo (a successor of Hu Lei忽雷 style founder Li Jing Yan late age creation of “Wu Hu Yun Qi Chui”五虎运气捶), Yek Sing ong of Zheng Man Qing郑曼青 style, and his martial art brother Patrick Kelly and Mr. Wei; Dan Docherty of Wu Dan Tai-chi, a branch of Wu style Tai Chi, Master Li from xin ji county (BeiJing Wu style master Wang pei sheng’s王培生 disciple), Yu Zhi Jun于志钧 (Wu Tu Nan’s吴图南 disciple), Mr. Liu (forgot his name, only after P.H, someone told me Liu was Shanghai PH champion, and also a master of Chinese wresting), David from Auckland（a boxer and a body builder, also practices Yang style).

Apart from above well-known Tai Chi practioners, there were numerous un-known Tai Chi teachers, masters.

The following video capture picture is of an Akido expert who challenged me during a public demonstration I was performing with Gerard:


I also had a kind of P.H. with Da Cheng Quan大成拳, Dai shi Xin Yi戴氏心意拳, and Wing Chun Quan masters or instructors （which put hands together first or body in contact first, then both sides were allowed to use their own technique to push, throw or strike), I also let one Muay Tai champion (Dan Brook) do a Muay Tai neck clinch and kneeling application and I used my Tai-Chi technique to throw him on the floor.

I also let one Akido instructor in Wellington try his akido on me, and an Judo instructor from Wanganui use Judo on me and as a result they both became my students for several years.

The most recent PH challenge was in early this year in Xi An China, while I was staying with my XYLH master Bai Wen Yi (Master Bai is the top student of the great master Yang Xiang Lin杨祥麟 of Mai Zhuang Tu买壮图 XYLHQ). Master Bai introduced his neighbours friend Master Sang桑 （whom retired from ShanXi陕西 wrestling team, and had won the light weight China national championship）to me, we had a go with he used his wrestling techniques, and I used my Tai Chi.

While I was staying in Xi An, I also asked master Yang Bao Shen of Xi An Wu Shu committee to pass my invitation to master Li Sui Cheng李随成 of Zhao Bao Tai chi to have a PH, but had no reply.

Among my above all those experience, I met several practitioners who used what I would now term ‘dirty tricks’, so I am writing down these experiences so other Tai chi practioners can be aware:

Case one：Master Yek Sing Ong， also called professor Yek Sing Ong.

1)“saying use little force by mouth, but use big force by hands”,

2)“let opponent stand by wall with leg very close to a couch, or a bed, or a chair etc, so the opponent worry about his back and can’t concentrate his front.

Background:
As early as in 1990, master Ma Yue Liang马岳梁, master Wu Yin Hua吴英华, My ex-wife Shi Mei Lin and myself, put a demonstration in Patrick Kelly’s Tai-chi school in Auckland (Patrick calls his Tai-chi as “fighting Tai-chi”), I had a P.H. with Patrick, and we became friends at that time, he also had a PH with master Ma.

Five years later in late 1995, Patrick contacted me to express his wish to try again on master Ma, as he still couldn’t figure out how he was thrown around without seeing master Ma use any effort. He thought at that time, he might not have tried his best, as he worried about Master Ma’s age (in 1990, Master Ma was 89 years old). So he wanted to have a good try. Patrick also said that he had PH with Chen Xiao Wang in Sydney and other masters in Europe, and that no one could beat him.

I told Patrick that Master Ma was already nearly 95 years old, so I had to ask him about the challenge. When I told Master Ma that Patrick wanted to come “to try again”, Master Ma said: “since Patrick wants to fly all the way from Paris to Shanghai, it indicates his sincerity of wanting to know the art, you tell him that he is welcome ”. So Patrick came, I picked him up from the airport, and next day I took him to Master Ma’s house. Of course, Patrick had no chance.

In his hotel Patrick and me had another PH (one of my Tai-chi students Edward Ware was visiting me from NZ, he was also present).

Later on I met Patrick and his Tai-chi brother “Wei” in Wellington, I had PH with both of them. By 1996, I went to Auckland to participate in the “Siu Lam Gar Kong-fu 1996 International Martial Arts Competition”, I won black belt weapons first place. While I was staying in Auckland, I had another PH with “Wei”.

From both Patrick and Wei, they talked about their senior Tai-chi brother Master Yek Sing Ong 葉神恩，whom was the number one student of their master Huang Xing Xian黄性贤, and had won PH champions in East Asia. So I had a desire to have a PH with master Yek Sing Ong to see the difference between our PH, but Wei told me that his senior brother master Yek Sing Ong was very busy in giving workshops around world, and often not available in NZ. But he would let me know when Yek Sing Ong was available.

The Push Hands
One day in early 1998, I received a phone call from Wei, saying Yek was in Auckland and would like to meet me in the weekend. I took two of my indoor students Gerard and Tony, and my Dai Shi Xin Yi Quan master Yang Long Chang with me, and drove all the way from Wellington to Auckland. Then Wei took us to Yek’s place. I felt like in the movies when I walked towards Master Yek, as from Yek’s front gate to where he sat he has a long walking path and on both sides of the path stood lots of his top students in their uniforms, while master Yek was sitting in a chair by a round garden table and drinking tea at the end of the path.

Once we sat down and introduced each other, Master Yek started to say some nice words about Master Ma Yue Liang. I guess he was told by Patrick about Patrick’s two PH experiences with Master Ma.

I said to Yek that my purpose of the trip was not to challenge him, I just wanted to see the differences in PH. Yek agreed and asked his assistant instructor to have PH with me first (this is very normal in these situations – gives the person an opportunity to assess the skills of the opponent etc). As I kept my word about not challenging him but instead wanting to see the skill differences, I just gently threw the student around. After a while, Yek’s assistant instructor put an open hands posture to Yek, indicating that he couldn’t do anything to stop being thrown around.

Then Yek stood up, asked me to move to a wall, and stood me in front of a couch which was attached to the wall, there were some soft pads above the couch on the wall. I asked “why don’t we PH in the open place (where I did with the student)?”, Yek said he just wanted to do PH without us using any force, and therefore the place is big enough and safe just in case with soft pads on the wall.

I didn’t realise that it was his dirty trick to ask me to stand with my legs right against the couch, and saying “do PH without force”. Soon our hands in touch, I could sense Yek was starting to using big force to push forward, I intercepted his force and he was bouncing backwards, then perhaps he felt that he lost face, so straight away he rushed towards me. I tried to neutralise his force and retreat my font leg, but I was tripped by the couch which meant that I ended up sitting on the couch. Even though my leg was tripped, I had managed to turn my upper body, so Yek’s force was mostly neutralised, and so he fell onto the couch too, with one hand on the couch. Just as I was about to stand up, he pushed me on the couch again with his other hand.

By then, I realised that it was a trick putting me in front of the couch (which I had not expected). So I walked to the open area and decided to give him a good lesson. I said to him: “Master Yek, lets come over here”. After Yek being repeatedly thrown out by me, he tried a big move to gain his face back, but unfortunately, I neutralised his force and led him fly out, his body and hands landed on the ground with face downwards. I let him got up properly (I wouldn’t like trying to push him before he stood up) and kept on pushing him back wards, once I saw the couch was about a metre away from his back, I threw him hard. Master Yek was falling backwards and sat on his own tricky couch. At that point he didn’t want to carry on PH with me,

My indoor student Gerard requested a PH with master Yek as well, and Yek couldn’t push Gerard out. My Dai Shi Xin Yi master Yan Long Chang saw me throwing master Yek on the ground and on the couch, so he decided to try delivering his power to master Yek, (as putting hands together first, and then trying to throw each other is also the way they practise Dai Shi Xin Yi in master Yan’s home town.)

When their hands came together, master Yan Long Chang couldn’t deliver his power, and master Yek delivered a palm strike, master Yan Long Chang lost balance and nearly fell over, showing Master Yek’s good skills.

By then all the PH activities finished, and Master Yek asked his students to serve us with some nice Chinese tea, and he didn’t say any other words. After the tea, we left. On the way back to Wellington, I received a call from Wei, saying: “his senior Tai-chi brother Master YeK was blaming him for taking me to see him, and Wei wanted us to destroy the video that Tony took”. I said: “we won’t destroy the video, but we wouldn’t put it in public unless Master Yek wanted me to do it” (of note the photo at the end of this section is a capture from this video, clearly showing the couch in the background and Master Yek with hands on the floor as verification of the event).

As matter of fact, one of Yek’s own students also took video of the event, so if he wanted to put the video on, he could do that. After almost 9 years, one of master Yek’s top students came to my clinic and said to me: “Master Yan, you are very good, is there any chance to get a copy of the video?” I said: “did Master Yek send you here to ask for a copy?”. That man said: “no, it is my own trip, wanting it for my own references”. As I promised to Wei not give to the public, I refused that students request.

In summary with this first example, the ‘dirty tricks’ are;
1) “saying use little force by mouth, but use big force by hands”, and
2) “let opponent stand by wall with leg very close to a couch, or a bed, or a chair etc, so the opponent worry about his back and can’t concentrate on his front. Not only this, as soon as he retreats, he will trip himself over”.

In year 2000 in Henan China, I had a PH with famous master Ma Hong of Chen style, he used the same trick, when he asked me to stand in front of his hotel bed. With the experience with Yek, I already knew this trick, so when Ma Hong suddenly attack me, he himself ended up on his bed (I knew not to retreat and to expected that type of attack), and when he got up, he put his thumb up, saying: “young man, you are very good”.



One of the reasons I love Tai Chi is I have felt that my PH has continued to improve ever since the 1980’s, and especially in the last couple of years. This to me shows how deep the art can be, that you can improve your skill endlessly throughout your life.

[Josealb]

I read this earlier today, and just want to enlighten the actual parts where the action happens, in case people want to skip thru the garnish and go straight to the meat of the encounters. I found the comparison between these two situations.... interesting... .

After Yek being repeatedly thrown out by me, he tried a big move to gain his face back, but unfortunately, I neutralised his force and led him fly out, his body and hands landed on the ground with face downwards. I let him got up properly (I wouldn’t like trying to push him before he stood up) and kept on pushing him back wards, once I saw the couch was about a metre away from his back, I threw him hard. Master Yek was falling backwards and sat on his own tricky couch. At that point he didn’t want to carry on PH with me

My Dai Shi Xin Yi master Yan Long Chang saw me throwing master Yek on the ground and on the couch, so he decided to try delivering his power to master Yek, (as putting hands together first, and then trying to throw each other is also the way they practise Dai Shi Xin Yi in master Yan’s home town.) When their hands came together, master Yan Long Chang couldn’t deliver his power, and master Yek delivered a palm strike, master Yan Long Chang lost balance and nearly fell over, showing Master Yek’s good skills.

[Bill]

The point of this seems to be that Mr. Yan considers himself to be better than Master Yan.

[Nick C]

Hey guys - actually the point is the 3 aspects from repeated challenges that come up for Dr Yan (this is just the first case article of two he has written)

Say "lets do soft to feel each others sensitivity, but actually do it hard",
"place the person infront of an low object to restrict movement - plus it looks impressive when the person falls onto the chair / bed /whatever" and the one that I have personally experienced (from a Kung Fu guy) -
"the rugby tackle" - charge you and try to tackle you either to the ground or into something behind you (which is very surprising if you have not experienced this before in PH)

Please understand this is about Push Hands, not forms nor styles. As there were many witnesses (and video) of these events, the details are simply provided so that no one would accuse Dr Yan of only telling half truths.

[Brad]

The only "dirty tick" I experienced was some attacking my knee directly, driving theirs into the side of mine at every chance they got. It was only my first time trying free style push hands, and I had bad knee already... so not a very nice thing to do :-P

[Formosa Neijia]

Since Yan is mentioning names directly and even bothering to put them in Chinese characters, I can see why he's having trouble in the CMA community. Being a bit more circumspect might be more prudent. Saying this is all about the PH tricks is belayed by the fact that he mentions so many people specifically. If it was all about the tricks, then why mention names?

As to the tricks, this is a good point. Putting people in front of couches, beds, or "pushing walls" with pads on the wall is a trick that often works. What is said is that the pusher wants to protect the pushee but it's also a very effective mental and physical setup.

Similarly, corners are often used in PH as are ring boundaries.

Dave C.

[Dai Zhi Qiang]

The point of this seems to be that Mr. Yan considers himself to be better than Master Yan.

Which is entirely not the case. Dr Yan is no where the same level as master Yan Long Chang, maybe I should post up the article Dr Yan wrote about master Yan owning him and making master Yan sound like he is superman.

JB

[Dai Zhi Qiang]

Hey guys - actually the point is the 3 aspects from repeated challenges that come up for Dr Yan (this is just the first case article of two he has written)

Say "lets do soft to feel each others sensitivity, but actually do it hard",
"place the person infront of an low object to restrict movement - plus it looks impressive when the person falls onto the chair / bed /whatever" and the one that I have personally experienced (from a Kung Fu guy) -
"the rugby tackle" - charge you and try to tackle you either to the ground or into something behind you (which is very surprising if you have not experienced this before in PH)

Please understand this is about Push Hands, not forms nor styles. As there were many witnesses (and video) of these events, the details are simply provided so that no one would accuse Dr Yan of only telling half truths.

Have you seen the video Nick? cause I have, so has Jeremy and Evan and Dr Yan was repeatedly pushed back into that couch. Regardless of the couch being there as somewhat of a jiang hu tactic, if his push hands is as good as he says it is, it would not be an issue.

JB

[Dai Zhi Qiang]

Master Yan Longchang discusses the Essentials of Xinyi

It is already autumn, and tonight the moonlight is particularly bright as it spills into the courtyard. As the scent of the flowers lightly wafts and the branches sway in the breeze, it is truly 'movement in stillness, stillness in movement.' The yellow Chinese osmanthus and the white magnolia which, two years ago, I went to considerable trouble to bring from Yunnan, have not failed my expectations; this autumn, they have all bloomed and sprouted shoots, their scents invigorating my soul.

Strangely enough, although New Zealand is a country of flower gardens, and has been called the 'world's last paradise,' fragrant flowers are quite rare here. All of the flowers in my garden and in my home are actually from China, and are very fragrant when they bloom. In order to appease my homesickness, my garden is full of crabapple, kumquat, fig, loquat, pomegranate, apricot, and other trees from China. Last year, when visiting my teacher Ma Hongxian in Luoyang, he took me to pick out some peony and lotus seeds, which I planted this spring; I hope that they will blossom, so that I can pay back my teacher's thoughtfulness.

After we finished practicing, Master Yan said, "Tonight, the moonlight is really beautiful; in the blink of an eye, I have already been here for three months...." I could tell that he was experiencing a bit of "raising my head to gaze at the bright moonlight; lowering my head, I think of my hometown." So, I said, "Master, tonight let's brew up a pot of quality Gongfu tea (which a friend of mine, a businessman from Putian, Fujian, had sent me) and enjoy the moonlight with our tea." "Sounds good," Master Yan replied, the glint of nostalgia fading from his eyes as his interest was piqued.
Master Yan discussed the essential points of Xinyi training, saying, "At different stages, there are different arrangements of training methods. Had I spoken of it earlier, it would not have been beneficial to your training, and you would not have understood. But your current level of training could be said to be 'a thousand li in a single day,' with no hesitation or carelessness; you have seized the opportunity and are moving in the direction of mastery."

As Master Yan discussed the essentials of these different arrangements of training methods, what surprised me the most was that many of his explanations were similar to the essential methods of Master Yang Xianglin as described to me by Master Bai.

Master Yan took a sip of tea as he sighed resignedly, "People always say that the ancients were conservative and did not transmit their skills lightly; in reality, it is not that they feared others knowing, but rather that others would not understand. Knowing of something but not fully comprehending it cannot be truly called understanding, and teachers always hope that their students will be capable of true understanding. Only with true understanding can one bravely forge ahead; despite the various obstructions presented by worldly affairs, one still cannot have any pause in traing. But, those who are unintelligent will not be able to grasp it; the ancients did not transmit their skills lightly, because they feared that it would be a waste of their time."

Discussing the conditions of his training, Master Yan said, "There were very few people like I was at that time; perhaps it was fate, but more likely it was just luck."

Perhaps it is indeed the will of Heaven that Xinyiquan does not perish; for each generation, there is a small handful of dedicated masters who have emerged. For example, during the late Qing and early Republican period, there were such masters as Jin Heichan of the Luoyang branch, Yang Xianglin and Li Haoyou of Mai Zhuangtu's lineage, and Yue Guining of Dai family. All of these masters had grasped the essential truths of Xinyiquan. In the thirties and forties of the last decade, a handful of masters were born, such as Ma Hongxian of Luoyang, the reclusive masters Bai and Liu of Mai Zhuangtu lineage, and Master Yan Longchang of Dai family.

Master Yan Longchang, in particular, seems to have developed transcendent skill in Dai family Xinyiquan; his gongfu has reached the pinnacle of Xinyiquan. Dai family Xinyi emphasizes the three stages of heavy movement, light movement, and nimble movement. Master Yan already reached the level of nimble movement by the age of twenty-seven or twenty-eight, due to his particular conditions and natural abilities.

I first met Master Yan in southern China in 1995, and in 1998 I invited him to New Zealand. For the past few years, I have traveled frequently to Master Yan's place in Qixian. This year it is already 2007, and I have again invited Master Yan to New Zealand. In recent years, Master Yan's training has entered into the realm of subtle transformation; his spirit is strong and his body is robust. When I see him move, whether while practicing boxing or just sitting and chatting, I can see that the true essence of Xinyiquan is always present within him, not leaving for even a second; this I can truly appreciate. Before, Master Yan would practice alone, not allowing others to observe him; I recall him mentioning that, in the old days, when Dai Kui lived with Yue Guining for six years, Master Yue only observed him practicing once or twice (it is no wonder that, although Li Luoneng worked as a bodyguard and trained martial arts in Nanyang with Dai Longbang, his son, and Guo Weihan, yet he probably never saw Dai family members practicing boxing). Though Master Yan was with Master Yue for nearly twenty years, he also has only seen Master Yue practicing two or three times.

Twelve years ago, I was fortunate enough to encounter Master Yan; yet, I have only seen him practicing once or twice. This year, Master Yan was particularly pleased to see my progress; now, every morning, I see him practicing. We practice in silence, only speaking when our workout is finished, and in the evenings I also receive some careful instruction from him.

It is no wonder when, at the age of thirty-two, Master Yan was afflicted by severe poison, Master Yue held him as he was unable to rise from his bed and, tears running down his face, lamented, "How can Heaven be so cruel; only Longchang has reached the level of our Grandmaster Dai Renlu; why does Heaven wish to destroy Dai family Xinyiquan?" (Master Yue had brought Master Yan to stay at his place for a period of time.) Certainly, it seems like the will of Heaven that such a gifted individual such as Master Yan could become part of the Xinyi lineage.

Master Yan was born in 1945 in a village not far from Lesser Han Village, the hometown of Dai Longbang, patriarch of Dai family Xinyiquan. His father and grandfather were both military men. The young Master Yan loved to practice martial arts, but unfortunately had no teacher. After seeing acrobats perform various flips, aerials, and handstands in the marketplace of Qixian, the young Master Yan, on his return home, practiced them himself and, without a teacher, was able in no time to master these skills, to the amazement of his fellow villagers.

At the age of sixteen, Master Yan was a robust young man. He had begun working in the Qixian junkyard, but his interest in physical cultivation had not waned. He often would exercise with an iron chain that he had pulled down; around the age of eighteen, he found a stone lock at a friend's house that weighed about twenty or thirty kilos, so he borrowed that and would often swing it around, throwing it up with one hand and catching it with the other. One day at work, an iron basin weighing about a hundred kilos flipped and fell on his foot; fortunately it did not break the bones, but for almost a year he had to walk with a crutch. A friend of Master Yan's father had become the director of the Qixian granary, and he got Master Yan a job there (Master Yan said once that if he had not injured his foot, he would not have been able to get this job in the granary, and probably would not have had a chance to meet his Xinyi teacher, Master Yue).

When Master Yan was twenty, he was transferred to the grain distribution center at Jianlingzhen in Qixian. The first day that he went, he met the daughter of Yue Guining, who had come to the center on some business. The granary accountant told him, "Her father is Shifu Guining." "Oh really?" Master Yan asked surprisedly. Although at that time he did not practice boxing, nor had he heard of Dai Xinyiquan, yet the fame of Master Yue Guining had already reached his ears as one of the prominent boxing masters of Qixian. He asked the accountant, "Does Master Yue accept students?" The accountant said, "You should ask her if you want to know!" So, he asked Master Yue's daughter, "Does your father accept students? I love boxing and I want to learn!" Master Yue's daughter said, "It all depends on if he likes you or not; I'll ask him when I get home."

The next day, Master Yue's daughter returned, telling Master Yan, "My dad wants to meet you." Master Yan was overjoyed; changing his clothes and buying a few small snacks, he went over to Master Yue's house. Master Yue lived not too far from the granary, and within a few minutes he had arrived. Master Yue saw that Master Yan was healthy and robust, his hands extending below the knees, and seemed to possess the perfect physical stature for the practice of Xinyiquan, and that he was also absolutely sincere. He immediately accepted him as a student.

Master Yan was a very obedient and clever student. Every day after work, he would go to his teacher's house; first, he would sweep out the courtyard, and then he would go fetch water, after which he would begin practicing. He carried on in this fashion for several years, and his level of skill soon surpassed that of his classmates. Every day he would practice until about 9:00 PM, and then bid farewell to his teacher and return to the granary (Master Yan lived at the granary and only returned to his hometown every month or two). After a bit of rest, he would again take up practicing, not retiring until late in the night (Master Yue told Master Yan not to allow others to observe him practicing, so that he would not be disturbed by their presence).

After two years like this, Master Yue asked Master Yan, "In these two years, you have only studied one move; do you not feel that this is too dull?" (Of course this was Master Yue's way of testing him.) Master Yan replied, "I'm not bored; I love to practice." Master Yue, with a slight smile, nodded, saying, "Good, just keep practicing, and you will appreciate it later."

In the blink of an eye, several months passed. One day, Master Yan went off to train. He had just entered the door, when Master Yue pointed out another young man, saying, "This is your senior classmate, Yuan Peichao." Master Yan had heard that, among his classmates, Yuan Peichao was one of two who were off studying at university; he was said to be particularly bright, with considerable skill in "double seizing," and he liked to fight, having beaten many challengers. Once, a Wang Buchang and Wang Yinghai, of his teacher's generation, had come to study with Master Yan (near his death, Dai Kui had told his youngest students Wang Buchang and Wang Yinghai: "You should receive instruction from your senior classmate Guining on those points that you still have not mastered."). When Yuan saw that the two were near his age, and having heard that Wang Buchang's gongfu was the better of the two, he said, "Uncle, let's play." Nobody expected that, with a single "double seize," he sent Wang Buchang flying into a muddy coal basin several meters away (in that area of Shanxi they use these basins to mix coal and earth), humiliating the two so that they never returned to Master Yue's house, but rather went to Lu village to train with their classmate Gao Zhensheng.

Master Yan respectfully greeted him as "Elder brother Yuan." "Go practice," Master Yue said. Who knew that Yuan Peichao would, in front of his face, say to their teacher, "Shifu, you should not teach this guy any longer; he could have been sent here by Ma Erniu to steal your skills. It seems to me that he has been practicing this move for five or six years." Master Yue, raising his eyebrows, said, "Really? But when I began teaching him, he had no skill whatsoever."

Master Yan was completely puzzled, thinking to himself, who is Ma Erniu, and why does this guy think that I am trying to steal their skills? (Normally, Master Yan just concentrated wholeheartedly on practicing boxing and at that time had never heard of his gongfu uncle Ma Erniu) Still puzzled, he saw that Yuan was waving to him, saying, "Little brother, let's play." He walked up to Master Yan, who was extremely worried and nervous, having no idea what his senior classmate, who he was meeting for the first time, planned to do to him. Master Yue said, "Longchang, make sure there are no nails in the wall behind you, you don't want to hurt yourself." He then said, "Disciples, you should all be like this; what are you waiting for?" Seeing that their master had spoken, Yuan Peichao did not persist in challenging Master Yan, but he had given Master Yan a real scare, which he did not forget.

Several years later, Master Yan visited the middle school where Yuan Peichao was teaching and, waiting for him to take a break, approached him, saying, "Big brother, let's play!" "OK," Yuan, cheerful yet surprised, replied; he was used to being the challenger, and this was the first time anyone had approached him for a challenge. Taking a stance, he said, "Come on!" Before finishing speaking, he had already sprung into movement; yet, with a "Sparrowhawk enters the forest," Master Yan had already dodged his incoming attack, and from the side, entered right through his middle gate, seizing both his sides. Although he had not emitted any power, Yuan could see that, with the speed and power of Yan's seizes, had he actually put power into them, the results could have been devastating. Surprised, he quickly said, "OK, OK, I had not expected that your gongfu had improved so much!" Afterwards, he constantly sang Master Yan's praises, and whenever he accepted a student, he would always invite his junior classmate and, praising him, hold him up as a model for his own students.

Masters Yan Longchang and Ma Hongxian are modern day Xinyiquan hidden virtuosos. Although both of them possess superior skill and excellence, they are not interested in fame or fortune, and live by the motto of "I do not seek fame, I do not seek fortune; if the right person appears I will teach them, otherwise, it is better for the transmission to be lost." Outside of Qixian and Luoyang, there are very few who have heard of them, but in Qixian and Luoyang, there are none who equal them.

When Master Yan was guarding the granary in the mountains, one day he was circling a poplar tree about as wide as the mouth of a bowl with his 'Sparrowhawk enters the forest' stepping. As he lightly rubbed against the tree with his shoulder , it suddenly snapped. In Qixian, he was renowned as almost superhuman; there was one expert Dai Xinyi boxer who did not believe his reputation and sought him out for a challenge. Master Yan, with his hands behind his back, used only his Xinyi stepping to send him flying several meters in a matter of seconds. His challenger left in surprise and went to Yue Guining, telling him that Master Yan must have sought out instruction from some other expert, as Xinyiquan could not really be so powerful. Master Yue did not believe him; calling Master Yan before him, with a stern face he told Master Yan to perform a boxing routine. As soon as he saw him practice, he broke into a smile, saying that he was still practicing what Master Yue had taught him - how could he have studied with some other expert? Even though the two had studied from the same teacher, they possessed different abilities and had put in different amounts of effort in training; thus, the skills that they had developed were as different as night and day. Master Yan is extremely careful and meticulous in his practice, not allowing even an iota of carelessness in his training. I have seen some of his classmates perform and it was difficult for me to believe that they were from the same teacher.

Thinking back to that year that I met Master Yan in southern China (his first time visiting the South), at that time I had expressed some doubts about Dai family Xinyiquan (this is because I had formerly purchased an instructional video of Dai Xinyi by a Mr. Cao which, after watching, I promptly threw away, and did not have a favorable impression of the style). Master Yan invited me to throw everything that I had at him, yet as soon as I made a move, Master Yan had already used his shoulder to knock me back into the wall, my feet leaving the ground by nearly a meter, and yet I never even saw clearly how he had advanced on me. I immediately bowed to him and asked to become his disciple.

Master Yan said to me, "In my life, I have never taken a disciple; I taught a few people before, but they were not of good character, and afterwards I was unwilling to teach anybody else. I even refused to teach the son of the county magistrate. I had not thought about taking a disciple, but this trip to the South was made specifically to look for students." Seeing that I was sincere, he taught me some shenfa exercises and said that, if I continued to practice with dedication, then the conditions would be right for me to become his disciple. Shortly thereafter, Master Yan suddenly returned to Qixian, leaving me there alone. But, every morning, I would get up at 5:00 and practice the shenfa exercises that he taught me; at the time, I was working as a general manager at a pharmaceutical company. I had excused myself from a number of social engagements so that I could practice morning and evening the exercises that Master Yan had taught me. I thought to myself, no wonder Master Yan had been unable to get a Xinyiquan class going; if you made a class of people practice these basic exercises for so long, everyone would leave! I kept up this practice for nearly a year.

One day as I was getting up to practice, I suddenly saw Master Yan coming out of a nearby grove! He said to me happily, "I did not tell you about my visit so that I could see whether or not you were continuing to practice, and whether or not you really treasured Xinyiquan. I had guessed that you would maintain your practice, and I was not wrong!" He told me that his wife and daughter had also come with him and were staying in a hostel. I was delighted and immediately drove to the hostel to pick them up and take them to a hotel. At this time, Master Yan began to teach me footwork, saying, "Dai family Xinyi requires that you practice three years of shenfa and two years of footwork before you begin boxing. There are deep reasons for this. You have now practiced a year of shenfa and should continue practicing that for two more years; now you can add in the footwork training. Practice hard for the next two years!" I told Master Yan, "At the end of the year I will return to New Zealand; after two years, I will invite you to New Zealand." Master Yan agreed. I drove him and his family to go sightseeign around southern China and at that time was able to develop a deep rapport with Master Yan.

Two years later, he came to New Zealand and, checking out my shenfa and footwork practice, was very satisfied. At that point he formally accepted me as his only disciple and transmitted the quanpu to me, as well as teaching me Xinyi empty-hand and weapons routines, all except the Emei needles, for which I had to go to Qixian and bow at the grave of Wang Guo'an, Dai Kui's student and Master Yan's gongfu uncle, before I could learn them. Master Yan had learned this routine from Wang Guo'an, who never taught it to anybody else, and he had promised his uncle that before he passed it on, he would bring his student to bow before him. So, two years later, I went to Qixian to study the Emei needles. In Qixian for a little over a month, I slept on the same hearth-bed as Master Yan; morning and night we would go together to the same deserted grove to practice, and during the day, he would lecture me on boxing. After this, every year or two I have brought Master Yan to New Zealand.

People in Qixian would say to Master Yan, "It is a shame that you have no successor, and your lineage will die off." To this, Master Yan would reply, "The lineage will not die; I have a disciple in New Zealand." Why did Master Yan not want to teach anyone in Qixian? Possibly it is because the students that he had taught there before were a disappointment; Master Yan often said that they came to him to steal a few tricks, and were not sincerely devoted to Xinyiquan, so he would not give them anything. He refused to teach those who lacked righteousness; as long as he could have one disciple of good character in his life, that was enough.
At the end of this year, Master Yan and his wife will again cone to New Zealand, and we plan to go out on the ocean!

[Dai Zhi Qiang]

As you can see above Dr Yan only know starts to discredit master Yan Long Chang's skills after he has been kicked out and are no longer protected by long term students who know the facts behind his so called challenge matches.

I would guess if you contacted the teachers he mentions defeating, you will hear a completely different story.

JB

[Nick C]

Pot - kettle - black Jon........

However in Dr Yans article you so kindly posted in the thread - the incident Dr Yan mentions is when he met Master Yan and became his disciple. The incident with Master Yek occured a number of years AFTER this event. Dr Yan clearly states in his article that his PH has continued to improve (and is still improving).

But you know - way to take one paragraph out of over 30 and say that that is the point of his article!!! However seeing as you have obviously want people to see it - there will be some more photos of the event (including Master Yan's go with Master Yek) posted later once the photo capture is done over this weekend.

Of course Dr Yan would show students video of his successful PH challenges, so I can imagine that you may have seen the video too. Of course if it actually showed him failing like you want to imply, I sure everyone knows that it wouldnt have so easily been shown! lol

As for the teachers - the names are used specifically because Dr Yan doesnt want to be accused of talking Bulls**t and talking himself up with no backup (as that seems to be a common accusation these days!). It is his way. It wouldnt be my preference, but needs must I guess.

[GrahamB]

The point of the article? Looks more like self-promotion to me, veiled under the guise of helpful advice...

[johnrieber]

if someone can knock you over with an environmental trick, a tricky trick, or a dirty trick, thank them and ask them to please do it again.

but flipside--i'm going to plead late night and ADD on this one, and apologize for not being able to name the name--someone very good once said, don't use tricks to defeat an opponent: they won't be convinced.

[Joe L.]

Why is there even push hand challenges?

I thought push hands were supposed to be about investing in loss, and more or less just a sensitivity exercise/drill?

Why not, ya know, just have it out in a more realistic manner if there is to even be a ''challenge match''?

[johnrieber]

people who don't want to invest in loss in PH usually don't want to explore the possibility of investing in loss in a fight, either. even if it's a formal and controlled one.

randomly, i have to say: nothing internet-wise makes me happier than seeing someone seriously post 'invest in loss' in taijiquan conversation on this IMA board. so thank you, Joe L.