Bagua vs. 52 Blocks

[Felipe Bidó]

Once he clinched 2:18, he didnt even attempt to alter/correct his structure/position with his lower basin to gain advantage.

Hmmm, true....I think one of the first and fastest things that get incorporated into your reflexes is the act of get in the best possible position when you grab someone, or you get grabbed, and that happens after you get used to the feeling when sparring. Lyte took the best position after he felt his neck got caught.

[Felipe Bidó]

Same fight, different angle, slow motion in some parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCWqv0ABIok

[Methods]

Ha......
Another nerd fight.
A bunch of lip smacking, big fucking talkers and should remain that - like usual, when it comes time to put up - NOTHING!

LOL

[grzegorz]

It sounds like it was a personal beef, not so much style vs. style.

[Wanderingdragon]

Nice angle , shows where Maoshan lost the fight, by not taking the step, at about :40 , he had the contact to control on the elbow , with one step he would have had Lyte's week side to play on, he also missed a major strike around that time too. No one knows what will happen in the heat, but IMA is supposed to give you the calm to overcome the supercharged energy, only experience is the answer, there should always be fighting.

[fuga]

I think CMA would be better off and more people/teachers/coaches would engage in sparring if people realized that some days you are going to lose. In fact losing is how you learn.

We were all talking about this exact same thing over coffee after our Oakland training. It seems so glaringly obvious, so why isn't it happening on a more global level with ICMAs? The desire to attach invincible to one's name or style seems to cripple the development of these arts as I have seen/experienced them. How many ICMA schools even have open mats where folks can train sparring at various levels in an untutored environment and lose and learn? It's just not a prominent part of the ICMA culture here in the US.

-pete

[bailewen]

You know, after watching the fight from the new angle I see it differently. Maoshan did really well as long as it was standing. It looked to me much less like a case of training falling apart than it looked like yet another case of wrestling > pure stand up. He totally stuffed Lytes first two attacks and even kept his posture for the most part. When the third attempt started going bad for Lyte, he clinched up and dragged him down.

Looks like if you want to train "fer realz" these days, at least some sort of jits/wrestling/etc. is an absolute must.

If I was Maoshan I'd just get thee to a jits school and not even full time. A BJJ blue belt would go a loooong way.

[BillyK]

words

the problem is not that someone lost, the problem is that the "fight" showed both guys to have a really, really low level of skill while talking like they know the ultimate truth in fighting. typical mcdojo shit.

[Johnny Drama]

Don't hate. You just think that the side headlock was school yard technique because you can't see the truth.

[Andy_S]

Too bad for Maoshan...years and years of training and teaching and then when he gets the chance to put up on cam, it all goes to shit. Reality check time. But this does happen in CMA...the William Cheung debacle was another high-profile example.

With so many CMA people focused on "style" rather than "fighting" it is not surprising, but in this day and age, there is really no excuse - just ignorance or arrogance. Grappling is here to stay: Learn some or else.

[Walk the Torque]

I'm sort with Omar on this.

Look Mao wasn't amazing, but he wasn't amazingly bad either. The way I see it, Mao shouldn't have allowed himself to be taken to a place he wasn't gon'a do well in. But as Omar said, Mao dealt with the first two attacks and went on to close in on Lyte. The only criticism I would make (after watching it only once) is that he wasted a bit of time after the head lock; which got him into trouble.

Mao's ground game seems wanting but that's not a crime in itself, just a part of a chapter in Maoshan's development. He will either learn to get a ground game or make sure his stand up game is beyond reproach. Getting it wrong is not a crime; neither is mouthing off. Not wise granted, but hey its all learning. It also appears that he has rethought his position on the subject of combat and has taken down previous clips. This shows integrity and is nothing to be ashamed of.

I wish him well on his journey on the path.

[grzegorz]

words

the problem is not that someone lost, the problem is that the "fight" showed both guys to have a really, really low level of skill while talking like they know the ultimate truth in fighting. typical mcdojo shit.

Yeah I know these guys like to talk, oh well.

The point I was making is that if this was within the walls of an MMA gym then people would realize that somedays, sometimes you get owned. But then when you go against the same guy again you know what not to do.

Lyte should have given Maoshan a second round, if this were an MMA gym he would have instead he pretended that he already won the fight that he didn't finish.

The main problem/mistake I see is that Maoshan went for a hip throw on someone shorter than him. For him to pull off that throw he would have had to gone really low. I have the same body type as Maoshan (6 foot with long arms and legs) which is why I don't go for hip and shoulder throws, I train them but I don't try to use them randoori because of my body type.

If Maoshan would have went for uchi mata or harai goshi the discussion on this board would be very different.

uchi mata (at the end)



harai goshi

I think CMA would be better off and more people/teachers/coaches would engage in sparring if people realized that some days you are going to lose. In fact losing is how you learn.

We were all talking about this exact same thing over coffee after our Oakland training. It seems so glaringly obvious, so why isn't it happening on a more global level with ICMAs? The desire to attach invincible to one's name or style seems to cripple the development of these arts as I have seen/experienced them. How many ICMA schools even have open mats where folks can train sparring at various levels in an untutored environment and lose and learn? It's just not a prominent part of the ICMA culture here in the US.

-pete

Exactly.

[C.J.Wang]

I think all practitioners of any stand-up fighting systems would benefit greatly by having basic grappling skills and experiences sparring with grapplers.

If stand-up fighting is your game, learning how to deal with grapplers without going to the ground would be the priority.

In the early days of NHB competition, grapplers dominated the game because stand-up fighters were clueless in terms of dealing with someone who's constantly charging in, tackling, clinching, and tring to bring the fight to the ground. However, as years went by, stand-up guys started cross training and accumulating experiences in fighting grapplers. So now we are seeing stand-up fighters like Chuck Liddel who's knocking grapplers out before they even get a chance to grab and throw him.

It's all about familarity and how much you are aware of/used to the other guy's game.

[maoshan]

I expected this, but some of this is too much.

I'm making no excuses. I let my emotions get the best of me as could easily be seen by the way I even started.Personal issues have kept me hyped lately and I didn't realize how bad it's gotten. I didn't fight. All I wanted to do was pop his head off. And that's exactly what it looked like. Straight Frankenstein.
He started running even as the fight started. What was that first punch, a running strike? I literally walked right through his shit and snatched his ass in a headlock. His throat was in my hands. I started to to rip his windpipe out but I stopped, we twisted and fell. Now I don't know what ya'll thought, but my head didn't hit the ground hard at all, nor was the wind knocked out of me when we hit.
Now for the details ya'll can't see from the angle ya'll had.

When we went down, it was nothing but a struggle. Lyte couldn't do shit with me. Everything he tried didn't work. Now, I have no ground game and that's real, but nor the hell did he. Ya'll think he chocked me from ya'll's view, and all he had was my shoulder which shows his panic.
His ribs are fucked up as well, but I guess ya'll can't see that either. I'm quite aware of positions he had me in, but he didn't take advantage of any of it or he couldn't.

I burnt out when I turn him over, after that all I could do was defend. This dude didn't do nothing to me and this is obvious if you pay attention at the end. Look at us. Who looks like they've been in a fight? I sure the hell don't. Anyway, we struggled up to our feet together. he pushed off me and walked away. What the hell was that? Why didn't this dude fuck me up? Make one real decisive blow?
Then he starts jumping around like he just won a million dollars.
The truth of that shit is he was just a surprised as I was at the out come. He didn't expect to win. I was in shock. Nothing like this has ever happened to me before. This dude has nothing, no power and he's empty inside. This was a fluke.

Yeah I fucked up. I didn't win, but I didn't get fucked up either nor was there any danger of it happening. Had I used my skill and it didn't work and my shit was over come I could honestly say I lost.
But it wasn't a fight. Neither one of us did what we are known to do.
My lose comes from me and me alone. Lyte did nothing to me.
Bottom line,
I'm back in the lab because something shorted out.I have to correct the mind/body connection. My stress level is high, Hell I don't even recognize myself as I watch the clip.

As for the rest of this stuff, BT distancing himself etc,etc...
Look my people were pissed off as they had every right to be, but we don't have a shallow relationship. Most of the people in our circle have been training etc...together for almost 20yrs now. While I felt bad at the outcome, my people reached out to me. It is what it is, life goes on.

Now to make myself clear,it's not over. This is personal as I said from the beginning. I have not made my point which I still am going to. This might be entertainment for ya'll who now want to criticize etc...but This is not no compitition for me,he dissed me from jump and now it's a matter of honor. The clip I made, I still stand by.I want a lesson. I sure didn't receive one that day beyond the one I taught myself.

Again, I apologize for letting down all my brothers. It should not have happened like this. All I can do now is redeem myself and I will.

This is all I'm going to say on the topic, no shit talking, just get the job done.

Peace

[bailewen]

Cool.